Fortune Magazine's article (click here) also had a great interactive Flash piece showing the anatomy of J.Crew's high-end $640 suit. Although I appreciate the close-ups (which are shown below), I am not sure if they offer the justification for the $640 price tag. The "canvas front" is the only close up that I feel really shows why the suit is expensive. The "inner pocket" and "jacket cuff" close-up wasn't as insightful as it could have been. (I do appreciate knowing that the cuff has working buttons, but don't most really good quality suits have that?) :) Ultimately, I was hoping to see more inside explanations that would make me say, "Yes! I totally understand now why this suit is better than other suits at similar prices."The following are the corresponding close-ups (which you can click on to see a larger image):
What do you think of this suit? Do you think the close-ups justify the $640 price tag? Would you consider buying this suit (either for yourself or for the man in your life?)
At $640 JCrew is coming in below Brooks Brothers top line suits. The fact that they have pick stiching, functional buttons and a full canvas at that price point is impressive. They really need to offer 2 and 3 button jackets for all of their suits.
ReplyDeleteDouglas: I agree with you. :) If they are making the argument of why that suit is better than their regular suits than they explained why pretty well. However, if they are trying to say why their suits are better than competitors at the same price points (like you mentioned, Brooks Brothers) than I need to know a bit more to convince me of it. Otherwise, I would gravitate to Brooks Brothers. (But that is just me.) :)
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't appear to be a full canvas front. It looks only Half-canvased. Full canvas would cover the whole front of the coat.
ReplyDeleteHi Alexis - I purchased a $980 1818Regent Brooks suit at 40% off last fall. JCrew appears to be using the same fabric mills as Brooks, JPress, and other high end tailors. Also - and this is really important to note BB charges $10 per button to create a functioning button hole. I ended up spending an extra $110 for that and additional alterations.
ReplyDeleteMy gut tells me that JCrew may find that retail sweet spot - albeit with some additional competition (Banana Republic's BR Monogram line) that allows them to tap into a growing market for men’s suits and accessories. The key is styling, pattern and color availability. It will be very interesting to watch how this develops.
If you go to Brooks Brothers, you will spend 1000+. At $640, J.Crew's suit is a steal.
ReplyDeleteGreat blog, btw!
I think they will have to win over a mindset to get guys who normally buy Ralph Lauren or Brooks Brothers or some other more established brands. I know my husband will buy tons of "casual" JCrew and a few dress shirts but steers clear of JCrew suiting. He tells me that the sizing/cut does not suit him.
ReplyDeleteBut I think he feels more comfortable going to Saks or NM and have a SA find his sizes and assist him getting something to his taste/size.
I believe men are just as picky (some even more so) when it comes to suiting. My DH will check labels to check for material details and finally to check where the item has been tailored. He is very picky when it comes to suiting.
Matt: I am not sure if its half or full canvased- but that is an interesting question to find out. I tried to look for the suit at their site- but couldn't find it. Hopefully when it does appear online, it will state if its full canvas front. :)
ReplyDeleteDouglas: I really appreciate your inside knowledge of suits. :) I didn't realize that it was optional to have functioning buttons on a suit jacket. $10/button seems super expensive too.
I also completely agree with you that it will be important for J.Crew to offer sytles and patterns that will appeal to the market. :)
Dulcie: Thanks for the nice words on the blog. As for suits, I don't know if most guys buy them full price. If you buy Brooks Brothers on sale (even if its $200 off) it becomes competitive (even though on the higher end) with J.Crew prices. I totally agree with you that J.Crew's regular suit prices are a steal compared to BB's regular suit prices. :)
Mom-NYC: Excellent point! I have heard from friends that in some of their professions, the maker of the suit matters more than how the suit looks some times. (Whereas I am the opposite- I think its more important how something looks on me than the label's name.) ;)
ReplyDeleteI would like to buy this for my fiancee, but he'd go in sticker shock if he ever found out the price. Plus, he's a software engineer ... the only time he wears a suit are for really dressy occasions, like weddings! But I wish I could get him to look sharp on a regular basis. :)
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure on this one...will it be an online only item, like most of the J.Crew suits? I don't like the idea of purchasing suits online, at all. I think it is something that needs to be done in a store.
ReplyDeleteMy husband does not like the cut of Brooks Bros suits; he prefers a more Euro cut. If this JCrew suit is of comparable quality but has a hipper fit than BB, I'm sure he'll be interested. I would anticipate, however, that he would need to take it to the tailor for slight alterations, which is usually part of the price of a suit in the other stores, so that would add $$.
ReplyDeleteFrankly my bf cant even wear Jcrew suits because they dont make a wide enough leg to fit his skier thighs. I think he has maybe 4 pairs of pants from Jcrew period and those were lucky finds.
ReplyDeleteHe buys from Brooks Brothers, Jpress, Jos. A Banks, and other designers at say Saks and Bloomies but not Jcrew suits. Frankly, I dont see why they are $640 dollars either.... I just don't see it.
My boyfriend has lots of suits, most of which he got on sale but none of which (including Brook Brothers) has he gotten for over $500! But it doesnt matter... their suits dont fit his legs anyway, they are just too slim fit.
I think this price point is comparable to my husbands suits. The cut is most important to him as he is a large man, but not quite into Big&Tall. He never has been a Brooks Brothers fan. I seriously doubt he would EVER buy a suit online. He actually still buys his suits from three moves ago and has them sent to CT because the man knows what he likes and takes excellent care of him. Nordstrom is a close second for him, but that is a service issue too. Men just have different service expectations from a shopping trip than women do.
ReplyDeleteLike most guys here I need to know about the fit. Every suit I've hand needed some tailoring and is usually included in the price.
ReplyDeleteThe one area I know can't really be properly tailored is the fit in the shoulders; either it does or does not. If the fit in the shoulders is lacking you need to try another size, cut, style or company.
If I knew the fit would work for me I'm go for it, but I'm an online shopper so my getting a J.Crew suit it doubtful.
Melanie: I laughed at the blue shirts part too! :) That is why I had to highlight it. My husband has 80% blue shirts, 15% white shirts, 5% other (which means green). :) It's just such a great shade on them! :)
ReplyDeleteBlumre: Your bf has a lot of suits! :) I was wondering if most men buy suits on sale. It seems like such an expensive purchase that needs a lot of research. When I bought my husbands suit, it involved months of detail work (e.g. visiting stores, reading online). Its almost like buying a wedding dress (but not as fun for me!) ;)
Jenn_Brak: Much like your husband, my husband most likely would not purchase a suit online. He maybe would if he already tried it on at the store and new how it looked- but still he would have to try it on first. :)
Unfortunately, the J.Crew stores around us do not carry a lot of men's suits (let alone in all sizes)- which makes purchasing their suits difficult.
Here are the problems with the Fortune article:
ReplyDelete1. The photo just indicates that there exists a canvas in the suit and that other suitmakers fuse the lining and fabric together. The problem is that there is no distinction between a fused canvas and a stitched canvas, which is the true indicator of quality. For what it's worth, I've never encountered a suit manufacturer who fused the lining of the suit to the wool--there is generally a canvas fused between the two. Unless J. Crew's canvas isn't fused and is actually sewn between the two layers, their distinction is meaningless marketing drivel. Personally, without having seen the suit, I would assume that the canvas is fused into the suit. Compare this to Brooks Brothers two entry lines (not their top line), in which part of the canvas is sewn and parts of it are fused. This is important because the glue in the fusing can react badly to the high temperatures of a dry cleaner, water in a rainshower etc. etc.
2. Functional buttonholes should be added AFTER the length of the sleeve has been adjusted by your tailor. This allows the tailor to shorten the sleeve from the bottom of the sleeve instead of detaching it from the shoulder, shortening it, and reattaching it at the shoulder. This perk may cost you more money in the long term. Or, you might just be tempted to leave your suit jacket sleeves too long (please don't do that!)
I do appreciate what JC is doing with their men's line, and I really like some of the items featured in the Tribeca Men's Store. I just think that it's important to distill good marketing from a good product (and without a better analysis of this suit's canvassing, one can't really tell if it is truly a good value).
k
Honestly, I don't understand why their suits have functional buttons. If you need to shorten or lengthn the sleeves, GOOD LUCK. This very feature has prevented me from being able to purchase suits in the past, and it is a pain in the a$$!
ReplyDeleteI've been teaching myself about suit tailoring so I can alter my own coats. Almost all suit coats/sport jackets have a floating chest piece but cheaper coats will glue in (ie fused) in the lapels and down the front of the coat.
ReplyDeleteWhen checking out a suit coat, pinch apart the layers of fabric between the buttonholes. If you feel three layers, that coat is fully canvased and stiched in (not fused). If you only feel two layers, it's at least a partially fused coat.
This coat looks to be half-canvased (comparable to Brooks/HSM, etc) at same price point. Half-canvased is still pretty good. It just means that the lapel area has a stiched in floating canvas and is not fused. Full Canvas is the best. It feels like you're wearing a sweater. Half canvased is still WAY better than fused. Fused feels stiff.
I am 31 and only wear suits for my own fasion (not a work requirement) so Jcrew's more fashion forward style looks better than brooks and is comparable in price. Except, I'd have to try it on and I don't see that happening via mail order. Especially with the working cuffs! Much too difficult to have shortened.
Here's the $640 question: when will JCrew (and other mass retailers) offer comparable tailoring on their women's suits? It's virtually impossible to find good-quality construction in women's clothing at ANY price point. Is it because we women don't care enough to demand it?
ReplyDeleteAgree with k and marta. All the sight of working buttonholes on a new suit does is dissuade me from purchasing. And pick-stitching just looks tacky.
ReplyDeleteThe Fortune article says nothing of value, except that these suits are made like other suits.
Alexis: Yea he has about ten different suits. which are a lot for a law student. But for men they are huge investments and if you buy the right suit they can literally last forever. I have to say he has one from BR that he doesnt wear to work because its a little too fashion forward that I love! He also has a seer sucker Brooks Brother's suit for summer weddings and parties (its looks so darn hot on him!). What can I say? I can't resist a man in seer sucker!
ReplyDeleteThe rest are more for the office, interviews and other work related activites... to me most of the mens suiting fabrics look very similar. He knows the difference I just comment on the fit and how they make him look.
K/Anon at 5:35 PM & MATT: You both really know your stuff when it comes to mens suits- I am very impressed (and learned alot from you both too)! :)
ReplyDeleteMarta: I didn't realize that functional buttons were something done after the sleeves were fitted to one's arm length. I have learned so much about men's suits from this post! :)
ColeFieldHouse: I agree with your last point: I felt like Fortune didn't point out the exceptional features of this suit (which there very well could be!) :)
Blumre: Ten suits is a lot! Your dry cleaning bill must be high. ;) What do you think is his favorite suit? I ask because my husband needs a really good suit and his favorite maker (Jones New York) doesn't make them anymore.
Alexis: LOL, thank god its not my bill and it is his. Also dry cleaning in NYC is a lot cheaper than in CT. Here he can have 4 pairs of pants done for 15 dollars!
ReplyDeleteHis newest suit is easily his favorite. He bought it as Saks and it is a Hart Schaffner Marx suit. Its a navy suit with a pale blue vertical pinstripe. He really does look striking it it. Other than that I know he loves his Brooks Brother's suits but he likes his suit trousers with a flat front and depending on the day Brooks doesn't always have the flat front in the store
Blumre: That dry cleaning bill is a lot less expensive indeed! Also, thanks for letting me know about which suits your bf prefers. I will have to check out Hart Schaffner Marx suits. I really like Brook Brother's suits, because they have those classic styles. :)
ReplyDeleteAlexis:I have to say I dont like some of the brooks brothers suits because their rise in the trousers is sooooo high. But some of them I really do love. Definitely check out the Hart suits... its a good label and really beautifully made!
ReplyDeleteCiao,
ReplyDeleteI'm an italian (living in Italy) interested in this J.Crew kind of dress (looks like a real taylored suit...that in Italy cost at least 800€). I've tried to spot it on the J.Crew Web site but i did't sort out. Do you have any advice?
I shoud go to Las Vegas on Jannuary and i would buy it.
Thx
Carlo
Wow, this J. Crew suit looks great man! It makes me strongly consider getting one for myself.
ReplyDeleteI've also seen other sub $500 good quality suits at http://thebusinesssuit.com
Great article!