As mentioned in the "So long, long weekend: 20% OFF your jcrew.com order" post, and by several JCAs throughout the blog, several popular items "disappeared" from J.Crew's website during the recent FABFEB promotion. Unfortunately, this practice of removing popular items to prevent customers from applying the current offer is not new.A big "thanks!" to Beth who not only contacted J.Crew about this but shared the following response from J.Crew:
...Thank you for reaching out.Whaat?!? I highlighted the part that I found interesting and annoying at the same time. I will address two parts to this email, please bear with me.
That style was temporarily removed from the site, because it was ineligible for the FABFEB promotion offering 20% off your order of $150 or more. This style recently debuted and in low inventory, these styles are removed during promotions to allow other customer to purchase the items at full-price first. Promotions must be added at the time the order is placed and are not eligible on previously-placed orders. We are unable to apply any promotion to this item.
If there's anything else we can do to assist you, please don't hesitate to reach out to us. You can contact us 24 hours a day at 1.800.562.0258, or simply reply to this email. ...
First, I am totally cool with J.Crew excluding new arrival items that are extremely popular from promotions. It makes complete sense. I get it. But instead of secretly removing the items, and their item pages altogether (thus disappearing from their website), why not just say that those hot-ticket items are excluded? (It's not like J.Crew does not already employ that technique. How many times do we see in the fine print that collaborations are excluded?) It looks shady to make it appear like all items are eligible for an offer, even though it is not the case.
Second, the "to allow other customer to purchase the items at full-price first" line bothered me too. How are those customers able to purchase online at full-price when the items are pulled from the website!?! Crazy move.
Overall, I am disappointed by J.Crew's disappearing-item practice. Hopefully, they will make things simpler for their customers (and themselves!) by being up-front with their exclusions.
What are your thoughts on disappearing items during J.Crew promotions? Do you think J.Crew should make it clear which items are excluded?
"But instead of secretly removing the items, and their item pages altogether (thus disappearing from their website), why not just say that those hot-ticket items are excluded?"
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts exactly. The response from the customer service representative was laughable. They likely are avoiding the "items excluded" fine print b/c their item list would be very long and have no rhyme or reason. Can you imagine: "items not eligible include Tillary tote Lucca sandals, Saint James tees, etc. etc. etc.
So in the same vein, I ordered the Saint James from my in-store PS (she called CS for it) during the promo and she called me and told me that it was "waitlisted." Funny because the day after the promo, it was back! Shipped the next day and without the discount. Pfft.
Slowly but (sadly) surely, my loyalties are shifting to The LOFT. I love J.Crew's unique and whimsical femininity in their clothing, but I tell ya - the sale issues, degrading quality, and diminishing originality are just too much. While LOFT isn't nearly as whimsical and unique as J.Crew in my opinion, I can at least count on sophistication at reasonable prices with sales that are clear, linear, and customer-friendly!
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with Alexis. What also irks me is when an item suddenly reappears at a higher price point. This merchandise hiding, bait and switch BS is so insulting.
ReplyDeleteAs for the quality issues that's another story. If JC ever included customer product review for each item like LE etc they will see a a huge drop in sales...
So far I have only purchased one item this year!
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ReplyDeleteWhat does the claim that J. Crew wants "to allow other customers to purchase the items at full-price first" mean? Some other customer's money is worth more than mine? That we should thank J. Crew for allowing us to shop at their stores/website at all? That we should all take a number as if at a deli?
ReplyDeleteGiven the (non-collaboration) items that disappeared during the recent 20% promo, I can't believe that the company's revenue would have taken that big a hit; that is, they removed expensive items that are likely already well marked up.
I find that response insulting. I am so glad that J Crew is "allowing" customers to pay full price for an item. Isn't that nice of them? The rep.who gave that response is really out of touch with what customer service means. Maybe all of J Crew is.
ReplyDeleteIf they feel they must remove items from their sales, fine, but don't be all sneaky and hide them. Do as Alexis suggested and say item is excluded. That way we all aren't searching and wondering what happened.
ALEXIS, YES! AND MORE SO!
ReplyDeleteAnd kikki cee, while I was toning down my stinging remarks for publication, you read my mind and said what I wanted to say, only in a more dignified manner, so thank you, too.
A couple times a year, the big retailers have a major sale - Saks, Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom. In some cases the lists of exclusions seem longer than the list of what is on sale! It's common practice among those retailers to both indicate the exclusions in the emails they send, and put something right in the product description on the website that indicates whether the item is eligible for sale. It's not hard to do and although it's annoying to see so many things excluded, at least you know what is going on. No mystery promotions. Not sure why J. Crew can't do that.
ReplyDeleteMany retailers exclude items from their sales, and we are accustomed to that. The line from JC is laughable and silly. Just state what is excluded and have your sale.
ReplyDeleteConduct business and stop with the shadier practice of deleting items and bringing them back to the website.
Whoever's handling their CS or marketing or whatever department is in charge of these kinds of issues really must not think very much of JC's customers, huh? Do they really think we're that dumb? What bothers me most is that feeling I get is that they're being sneaky and thinking we're not noticing instead of just being straight up.
ReplyDeleteI haven't read the fine print, but I assume this issue is not addressed. Assuming that is the case, really all they would have to put in their fine print is something along the lines of: "certain items are excluded from this sale and have been temporarily removed from the website. When the promotion ends, they will return to the website and be returned to the website for purchase depending on availability." or something like that.
But let's be real. As has been discussed here, tons of other retailers employ similar tactics. If businesses would just operate fairly and honestly, there'd be no need for consumer protection laws, BBB's, etc... and sadly, that's not the case.
Just to play devil's advocate, think about this: Would you like it more if you saw the sale, got super excited about it, picked out the item, put it in your cart, made the decision to make the plunge, went to check out and *poof!*, no discount? You would probably say, "Wait, why isn't my discount there?", remove the item, add it again, and so forth until you just called customer service, at which point, they would say, "Sorry, that item is SOOO popular that we've had to exclude it from our sale!" You go back, and there, in tinnnnny tiny print it is, on the item page, but you didn't see it because you were so excited to get the item you had been coveting for 20% off that you just threw it in your bag?
ReplyDeleteAnd I mean, really, this is J. Crew we are talking about: haven't we all had items that we splurged for and bought at full price against our better judgement because we just HAD to have it (or thought it wouldn't make it to sale)? There are always things that other people are willing to pay full price on when we aren't--especially those super popular items. Last summer I bought the ikat silk tank - at full price and with shipping! - even though there is a J Crew just down the road (but they didn't have it at the time) because I loved it so much. And then the freakin thing went to sale! No one ever said shopping can't be a gamble - and you win some, you lose some!
JRuby18, You know that it is not true that J Crew doesn't care about the customer. That is just not true. At the store that I go to, they go way beyond what I would expect them to do, returning items for store credit that are way past the return policy, taking things back and repairing them for me when I've had them for months (the purple paisley blouse from last fall). You could always call customer service if you wanted to pay full price and they would definitely find it for you.
And don't you guys go getting mad at me for pointing out the other side, I'm just saying--don't hate. J. Crew is awesome. Don't tell me you aren't pumped about the Manolo partnership!!! And, again, they aren't alone in this practice: every retailer - even LOFT - has exclusions to sales, they are just doing it in a way that they think prevents confusion and dissatisfaction. If it really makes you unhappy, you should tell them, not post it to a blog!
I sound J. Crew obsessed - lol, I guess that's pretty accurate! :)
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ReplyDeleteI love J.Crew, 95% of my wardrobe is J.Crew, and I spend way too much money at J.Crew, but I'd always prefer up front exclusions to inventory hiding. I am able to read the fine print, and if I did manage to miss it, and something didn't show up with the discount, I wouldn't jump to call CS. I'd assume it was excluded and go looking for the fine print to confirm that assumption, first. Not that difficult.
ReplyDeleteI think it is ridiculous and customer unfriendly that J.Crew excludes items from sales in such a sneaky manner. kikki cee, you said it well. I love J.Crew but they seem to do things in a way that alienates people. Macy's for example, always has more exclusions than inclusions to their extra percent off coupons...written on the coupons. It is still really annoying that you can't get any of the good stuff with the coupon, but at least there are no surprises, no pretending like it's some awesome sale only to find at the register that I can't use the coupon on those Kate Spade dishes. With J.Crew's method it's like they pretend they are having an awesome sale with 20% off everything and just conveniently (for them) hide all the hot items and hope no one will notice/complain.
My solution is to only buy things on sale, with an extra percent off. That way I get to avoid this BS altogether. This strategy works for me so far; I've gotten almost everything I want, eventually.
I thought other retailers exclude certain lines because sometimes they don't allow them to sell below agreed upon price. That's why certain brands never go on sale. It is part of their pricing strategy. They will sell at lower prices but only at discount stores. So having an exclusion on cooperation items or even a Collection items is one thing but excluding specific items just because they sell well is another. This is like admitting that they were grossly off on inventory/price/demand decision. I think this is a huge problem that J.Crew has, they don't seem to be able to price correctly and have appropriate inventory. Many, many items are overpriced and they have to then move them later on at deeply discounted rates outside of the hot selling season. And many items they don't have correct inventory and the price is artificially inflated. jmo.
ReplyDelete@Emily, I didn't say or imply JC "doesn't care about the customer". What I implied was that they underestimate our intelligence to think we don't notice these kinds of things. My implication is that you should just be upfront with the customers instead of playing games w/us. And I'm not just singling out JC as I stated in my post, so please back off. Wow, we're just discussing here. No need to get so uppity about it.
ReplyDelete@Emily - "If it really makes you unhappy, you should tell them, not post it to a blog!"
ReplyDelete^ Seriously? I don't mean to sound rude but why are you here then? Why not spend your time writing directly to J.Crew about how you understand their tactics and how you think they're so awesome and really are doing us a favour here?
And if that sounds to be dripping with sarcasm? Well, my dear, it is. And in your words, "don't go getting mad at me" for just saying it like it is to you.
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ReplyDeleteI would prefer that J.Crew post all available items on their website, but state upfront that "certain items are excluded from the promotion."
ReplyDeleteIf they have the "technology" to remove those items, I don't see why they couldn't just add a line on the product page to say, "this item is not eligible for the current promotion."
That said, it does seem bizarre that they exclude certain items from promotions due to inventory issues. Other stores seem to exclude brands due to contractual agreements with manufacturers, not because an item is so popular.
I agree with the comments that J.Crew isn't counting counting on its customers to be savvy enough to realize that they are hiding merchandise. Unlike the Aficionadas here, most J.Crew buyers probably don't "follow" the inventory; they just wander into a store or onto the website whenever they need something.
I simply think J.Crew is a novice when it comes to technology. To me it's obvious in the site's interface and less than contemporary design, inventory management, outsourced software objects (not that there is anything wrong with that), etc.
ReplyDeleteSince they didn't yet invested in revising the programming of the site, it was just easier for them to remove the exclusions. Of course, an up-front notice in the email or on the site would have been nice. If they would invest in their back-end infrastructure as much as they spend in marketing (hello large-scale leaflet included in the shipping box advertising their cashmere)....
As for customer service, i think the intention was to sound friendly. You just have to love the unabashed honesty though.
JCK: I'm thinking that J.Crew had no way to ensure purchasing at full price for excluded items, so to notate an item at full price yet exclude it from particular promotions wasn't possible. I think this is a programming change that they haven't yet instituted. I wouldn't be surprised if they corrected it at some point.
ReplyDeleteThat's the lamest and most customer-UNfriendly thing I've heard in a while. WOW. I agree with JCrewJD, I'd rather someone just say it upfront like some other retailers do and not be sneaky.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think it's important to note that we're not considering this issue in isolation. At least I'm not. It's part of a much larger problem with pricing and policy inconsistencies across geographic locations and channels, with seemingly haphazard promotions and offers that in many cases are offensive to brand loyalists (which I am, like it or not).
J Crew is the boyfriend that everyone tells me I should dump, that I know I should dump because he's not good to me and we fight a lot. But in my moments of weakness, I realize nobody makes me feel quite like he does.
And so it goes. ...
I'd like to see them try that tactic in the B&Ms. Can you just imagine? :o)
ReplyDeleteElaine, you hit the nail on the head with the bad boyfriend comparison, lol. Is this where the power of the crewlade is? Why don't we ever get so attached to the good guys??
ReplyDeleteAh Elaine! LOL! You do say it best for so many of us JCA's. ;o)
ReplyDeleteDuring the recent promotion I was able to find some of the hidden items but I could not order online. There was a little message box over where you normally choose size and color and it said that the item was not included in the current promo but I could call CS at 1-800 to order. Although disappointed, I had no problem with it.
ReplyDeleteI should have taken a screen shot but I do recall someone else commented about the same experience on here at one point.
Sometimes their approach does seem a bit misdirected. J.Crew could be more organized and up front about how they handle their exclusions. First, there is no need to "hide" the items. It would be better to leave them online and somehow indicate which items are their current "top sellers". During the promo make it clear that their "top sellers" are excluded from the promotion along with collaboration items, etc. Some people who are attracted to the site by the promo may actually buy some full price items at the same time so why not make them available?
Emily, "pumped about the Manolo partnership" - nice pun. Sounds like you have had excellent customer service experiences with J.Crew and that's great. Unfortunately it's not consistently good for everyone. See "Looking To Vent" weekly post.
I wish the items had been left on the website. I really want to try the Saint James minquiers. It would have at least helped me to meet the free shipping minimum along with other items that were included in the promo. As it was, I ended up ordering nothing.
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ReplyDeleteAgreed with Elaine - this problem should not be considered in isolation. JC has always been odd with pricing.
ReplyDeleteOne of the reasons for my loyalty to Trader Joe's, for example, is that they are predictable and honest in their pricing. I know when I shop there that there aren't gimmicks that I have to remember or plan around.
I am MUCH more likely to pay full price when I know that I'm not getting played. At this point I only buy at JC when items are significantly discounted. This wouldn't be true if JC didn't play games. (And many of the items I buy are crewcuts, which has free shipping all the time!)
They are missing out on my clothing dollars. I suspect I'm not alone.
J Crew not only makes items disappear, it also makes particular colors disappear. That tactic is totally underhanded. Case in point, the MINK color of the macalister wedge boots, which I've been checking on for ages, was taken off the site during the promo. Of course, now it's back in all sizes in that color. This type of behavior is just disrespectful towards customers.
ReplyDeleteMy thought is a sale is a sale. Wouldn't you rather make a sale at 20% off than gamble at 100% and have it go to deep discount eventually? I've seen that happen a LOT!! I always wonder wouldn't JC have been happier selling the item when they could have, non returnable after 30 days rather than hedging for the full price purchase, and having excess inventory to push through final sale? I would think especially in this economy, retailers would want to make a sale rather than not. Finally, changing prices on items also really just trains consumers to always buy on discount, rather than gamble at full price, because why would I buy something that I know was $ less yesterday? Once an item has been marked down, there should be no marking up!!
ReplyDeleteDiary of a Shopper:
ReplyDeleteDay 1 of promo, early a.m., look for high-waisted denim skirt, it's not on site. Check some blogs, get style no., search on site. Skirt appears, all sizes, full price, order goes thru with promo.
Day 1 later, no confirmation yet.
Day 2, early: no HWDS on site, do style no. search. None there. Still no confirmation, order appears on my account.
Day 2, later: still nothing.
Day 3, early: nothing. Decide not worth calling.
Day 3: confirmation arrives. No HWDS on site, but my account shows order "released." Promo still on order.
Day 4: order ships! Search website, all sizes available.
Day 4, later, just for fun, look again, pnly 2 sixes left.
I agree with others that they should just have exclusions to the promo rather than remove the items from the website.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, other retailers also do this. I recall a BR promo a year or so ago when they removed all the lightweight wool suiting during a promo. I called cs and the rep swore that the entire line was sold out in all colors and sizes. That is, she lied to me, even when I told her that I knew it wasn't true. The day the promo ended, the suiting was back in stock, in all colors and sizes. I was so disgusted that I pretty much stopped shopping there.
I'm personally not excited about the Manolo partnership. I'd rather have the store displays filled with reasonable price to quality ratio shoes than $600 Manolo for JC shoes. Just encourages JC to put out more items at astronomical prices.
ReplyDeleteXOXO - you should write the policy for JCrew. I'm not excited about MB shoe collaboration either. They are ridiculously high, how can they possibly be comfortable?
ReplyDeleteVery interesting. This practice irks me as well, though I'm glad J Crew finally came clean instead of bluffing about new arrivals being "out of stock."
ReplyDeleteI don't have a problem with any of this at all. They are under no obligation to discount everything.
ReplyDeleteI feel disrespected by their sneaky tactics and crazy pricing. I'm taking most of my business elsewhere. If we felt our concerns were taken seriously by J Crew we would not have to blog here about our frustrations.
ReplyDeleteThat response makes no sense (who are these customers who want to have an extra opportunity to buy full price? Now I have to worry about other customers not getting their items FP?) but it is such a step forward from the old line "it looks like this item is completely sold-out", which usually made me feel like an idiot for even trying to discuss with them.
ReplyDeleteOtherwise I agree with Savvy Shopper: when they have a sale, let just the customer go crazy and wipe everything out, especially if the discout is 20% and not 40% ...
Everyone on here should open a J Crew and put into policy all of the suggestions made here and see the store go out of business due to being too nice to it's customers. The marketing plan will be simple. Pay what you want, whenever you want and return whatever and whenever you want! Good luck!
ReplyDeleteIt just seems so unorganized and a bit sneaky. They are under no obligation to put it all on sale, but maybe they could check out how LOFT is doing their current promo. They are offering 40% off select new items. It's very clearly marked. They already do promos on certain pieces, so why not just figure out how to do this during the big percent off sales?
ReplyDeleteI think we are all frustrated with the sneakiness and wasting our time wondering where the items have gone. We realize they have the right to charge whatever they want for their products. It isn't an issue of being nice or not to their customers. I don't shop where stores waste my time and make me feel disrespected. If we all started our own JCrew the quality improvement alone would make us a complete success! I doubt a business can be successful by being mean to their customers. Take a look at how Zappos does business. They respect their customers. Oh, and they are making A LOT of $$$$.
ReplyDeleteWhat frustrates me - is that I can not find ANY items that meet the promotional cards that I receive. I have one that is $25 off and Item of $25 or more and one that is $30 off $100 or more. But all items I've added to my basket - no matter the price point are excluded from the promotion.
ReplyDelete