J.Crew sizing is a topic that comes up often in the comments. For the most part, I know my sizes in all categories (tops, bottoms, etc.). However, I noticed in the past few seasons that I have fluctuated in size. (Yes, I think "vanity sizing" might be involved here since I have remained the same weight and height.)As of recent, several Aficionadas have mentioned (in various posts) the following news about J.Crew sizing:
- XXS will now be available for women. I think this is a great idea! This is one area where I think vanity sizing has taken over. I use to be a 2 on top and now I am buying more and more size 0. My top has not changed either. Since I bumped down sizes, I often wondered what happened to the original extra-small, size 0, wearers. ;)
- Size ranges will be limited (& vary) for new items. (Refer to Jacquelyn's great post, "A Sizing Rant", over at her "Musings by Jacquelyn" blog.) For example, some items in J.Crew's Look Book (refer to "J.Crew's Fall '09 Look Book {thanks naomi!}") will be offered in sizes 0 to 8 while others will be offered up to size 12. I am not sure how J.Crew determined which item gets which size range. But if demand levels are involved, it seems like it would be wiser to not eliminate all sizes over a certain number. Instead, it might be better to reduce the inventory level of less popular sizes (small and large sizes that aren't selling well) and increase the popular sizes.
As someone who was always a true 0, with even that being frequently too big, like everyone, I was excited about XXS. However unless you have found out some new information (hope so), in the calls made by my PS and also the store manager in my closest store, so far only the one top - the ruffle front one - is being offered in this size...We are wondering therefore if it is a 'trial' or something because there aren't any other items in XXS. I did also find out that this size will not be in stores, only online. I ordered the top on XXS and will be happy to take it in to a store and compare to the XS/give feedback. It should arrive in a few days. I am disappointed though to not find other tops offered in this size. However, as I said, perhaps this is coming in the Fall...?
ReplyDeleteWell, considering that most women are not a size 0 and most are a size 12 or 14 JCrew is obviously choosing to cater to a specific size woman. I noticed that their 12 and 14 sell out in jackets and most tops online rather fast so I think it is their choice and NOT that that size doesn't sell. Seems to sell just fine from what I have seen!
ReplyDeleteI wear an 8 or 10 so I guess JCrew will be loosing out on business from me depending on the garment.
I have not had any issues with JCrew sizing per say on the majority of items--occasionally there is one so won't buy final sale just in case. I wear a 6 or 8 in sleeveless tops, 8 or 10 in jackets. 8 in pants. Been that way for years.
Oh and I do agree with Genny - I agree most people are not Sz 0, and it seems VERY discriminatory of them to cut out the larger sizes. They will surely lose business over this, not to mention create bad feeling amongst customers..I have also noticed that many things like jackets sell out in the larger sizes
ReplyDeleteIt bugs me beyond belief when stores cut off larger sizes. I'm 6 feet tall and my chest is a 34D. In any sort of long sleeved top, even in tall, I almost always need a 10 just to accommodate my chest without buttons popping and so the sleeves are closer in arm length. I wear about a size 8 bottom, sometimes 10 if there's no room for a big'o'butt, but in tops I'm almost solidly a size 4 or 6 in most brands. It seems to me that JCrew tends to cater to small chested girls (which is evident if you view their wedding section). =(
ReplyDeleteThe sizing is definitely odd, and has changed pretty drastically from last summer to this summer. Case in point- I bought a pair of cafe capris in the store this past April in a size 6. I was stoked I was able to get into a 6! So I check out the sale pages, and see that there are yellow cafe capris on sale for $20, and between the 8 and 6, I order a 6. They were from last season (as indicated on the inner tag that said "SUM08") and DID NOT FIT! It's inspiration for me to lose weight, but it is SO frustrating to not know which items will fit according to which season's sizing. I really wish JCrew would just stick to a size, instead of incorporating vanity sizing!
ReplyDeleteAs for limiting sizes in certain items, I guess we'll see how it applies. If it is a blanket sizing for all their items, then they are going to lose a lot of business. I strictly wore JCrew shortly after I gave birth to my daughter because even in a size 12 and 14, their clothes were VERY flattering to my shape. If I were still that size, I'd be very disappointed to find that a brand that worked for my size no longer offered me options.
Perhaps JCrew is taking this tack to increase their sales:
ReplyDeletehttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB124528869522126117.html
This pisses me off, frankly, and I see the hand of Jenna here. She seems to be so "fashiony" and out of touch with J.Crew's true customer base that she would propose limiting sizes in the manner of many designer labels. I am an 8 in everything except dresses where I am frequently a 10 (chest), so the idea of having to order the largest size available would definitely turn me off from a lot of purchases (much in the same way a lot of us will impulse buy something that is a size smaller than we usually wear!).
ReplyDeleteOn the other issue of vanity sizing, I have noticed quite a few of changes in the way pants are fitting me, where I used to be a 10 in Favorite fit, I am now an 8, and I have actually gained a couple pounds (grr.). Also, in the cardigans, a medium used to be a little tight over my chest (34DD) sometimes, and now there is no problem, but that might be a cut thing, not a size thing. I love changes in fashion, not in sizing! It make the dreaded FINAL sale that much more frustrating.
Sydneygirl,
ReplyDeleteI understand where you are coming from too. I was typing my response to Alexis's post and when I hit enter yours was there! When I started typing there were 0 responses so far!
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ReplyDeleteJC needs to realize that they are not a designer label. Vanity sizing is wrong regardless, though.
ReplyDeleteWhile it is frustrating for those of us who are petite and now are not sure if we need to size down (to crewcuts?!) or if we'll need to further alter our clothing (which I have to do with all non-capri JC pants), those who wear bigger sizes have it much worse. It's like JC is saying that sizes 10-16 don't matter, that they may as well be plus size... isn't the average American woman a size 12 or something like that?
It's additionally frustrating when petite and tall sizes can only be purchased online, then when they don't fit correctly, you lose out on the shipping (yes you can make returns in store, but that initial shipping is lost).
Ms. Cupcake,
ReplyDeleteI am tall too and even though small busted I do need at least a size 10 in blouses.
It really irks that JCrew is doing this.
Do they really think limiting sizes and increasing prices will make people think they are higher end and designer-like!
Personally, I like to think I am smarter than the average consumer (as most are on this blog!) and this just makes me mad.
so mad that I had to post AGAIN!
Sorry!
I wish that the J. Crew stores sold size XL instead of mostly or only online. I'm top heavy and I often need to go with the larger size and I can't try it on at the stores because they don't sell extra large. I hate ordering something online and then having to return it. I feel the average woman is NOT a size 0 or 2 (unless you are living in Beverly Hills) and J. Crew should produce more 10-12 & 14 sizes for today's real woman.
ReplyDeleteGood topic! I have been wearing a 6 in J. Crew shorts for the last 3 seasons. So, that is consistent. I don't like that the 2 pairs of 5" chino shorts fit very differently. The stone pair is loose, and the honey brown pair is tight! Oh, and now that I think of it, the summer weight bermudas i bought this summer are more generous in previous seasons.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree with every one else, a size 10 shouldn't be a largest size. I have big shoulders and long arms, sometimes I can't wear a 10 in a jacket or shirt.
Plus, I thought, as a population, we are getting bigger. My niece (16) is at least 6 foot. I doubt she wears a 10.
Ooh, I know we all hope that J.Crew Consumer Research reads this blog (and if they are smart, they do), but what would really be effective is letters/emails/phone calls to Mickey/Jenna/ppl of power there. Stressing that we have heard that this might happen in fall and that we are hugely concerned by it, for all the reasons stated here from tiny people having to go online only, to "normal size" 8s and 10s being alienated to 12s being cut off, etc. The way merchandising works with modern factories, they have only started to go into production for the fall.
ReplyDeleteI think J. Crew sizes have definitely changed over the years. I've been buying from J. Crew since I was in high school; I am 28 now! I am 5'9" and I usually wear a 4 in dresses, a 6 in pants/skirts, a 2 or 4 in blouses, a small in knits. Over the past year, I've actually bought a few dresses in size 2 or XS, sized down in blouses to 0 sometimes, and down to an XS in knits. I feel like their blouses have gotten roomier over the years. I also usually buy Tall sizes in blouses and sometimes the "Tall" isn't that long enough in length for me anymore... I would really love a true size 2, Tall, LONG blouse!!
ReplyDeleteI really hope they put an end to the vanity sizing because most women know exactly what their size is (and we are proud of it, whether we are smalls or larges). As for limiting sizes, J. Crew is just trying to save money. It costs more to cut a larger size because it uses more fabric in the longrun... but I don't know how much that would really help their finances.
my biggest problem with vanity sizing is in where i used to wear a size 2 pants, i now wear a 0. however, that size doesn't come in tall. so i can either wear short pants that fit or PAY ADDITIONAL money to alter pants that are long enough, but too big in every aspect.
ReplyDeletei'm 5'11" and a 12/14 (working on being a 10/12, but that's beside the point! ;))... if this happens i'll be canceling my credit card and telling them exactly why. i just jokingly mentioned it to my mother and she got angry as well! they are not a designer label, they are a store brand sold in malls! they need to seriously get over themselves before their customers do. or, maybe they should put in a call to michael jeffries over at a&f and ask why they are now including larger sizes.
ReplyDeleteLuckily for the guys sizing is quite constant. I only get to a store every couple of years, yet I can order online and be very confident that things will fit and they do. The only area I have had trouble is with shoes; that can sometimes be off. I hope the company can make sizes consistent for you ladies the way they ahve for men.
ReplyDeleteSize 0 tends to sell out fast, too, in certain items. I joke that this is because size 0 is being bought by people who are size 0, 2, 4, and sometimes even 6! (I thought the pansy skirt I got in a 0 was the biggest yet, closer to a 6 than a 4, which is what their 0 usually runs IMO).
ReplyDeleteI have contacted higher ups about this on two occasions. In both cases, my comments were referred to the same person, who said (do you believe it?) that this was the first time s/he had heard this comment! I'm surely skeptical.
I won't buy pants unless they are petite, and I haven't quite figured out if I am now a P0 or P2 (it is quite a hassle to get to the bottom of this, with the returns and exchanges it involves). I have to add $25 to the purchase cost of the majority of skirts, because they require major tailoring to fit.
Yes, I realize that the average American woman is bigger than I am. But judging by others' comments, there are a number of women who are my size, too. So I just don't get it.
For those of you who are interested in consistent sizing and preppy duds, check out LLBean's new contemporary fit line. I haven't ordered anything yet, but there are some cute things, and they guarantee their sizing is consistent (interestingly, my measurements fall between sizes 2 and 4 according to their charts).
I thought I read somewhere a while back that they were going to start making more items (like tops) in a size 16, which was good news for me. I'd rather have them stop with the vanity sizing nonsense and add a size 16 instead of cutting back on bigger sizes! This makes me sad. I guess J. Crew thinks I'm too much of a fatty to be wearing their clothes. Thanks, J. Crew!
ReplyDeleteJust to underscore what tnorwood said, the vanity sizing on the low end is getting worse over time, and the cafe capris are a good example for comparing the fit in the same item. I've lost a bit of weight and I knew that my size 6 cafe capris from last year were a bit big. I was fortunate enough to make one of my rare trips to a B&M when I replaced them, because the 4 was way too big, so I bought a 2. Last week my husband said "what's wrong with those pants?" The 2 is actually far too big as well.
ReplyDeleteI am slender and fit but I have a mature woman's body with hips and boobs--I am not some teenager who hasn't filled in yet. J.Crew, I am NOT a size Zero!
And now they want to take sizes off the other end (since the vanity sizing is inconsistent of course 14 and 16 can't just size down in everything). J.Crew is not couture--rather than selling clothes to a small set in order to sell perfume to the masses, their job is um, actually, to sell clothes. Why are they dropping the sizes of the average US woman?
Genny,
ReplyDeleteThanks. Further on the topic of this very discriminatory removal of larger sizes, there was a very nice article in the NY Times earlier this week about how many popular chains eg TopShop, Forever 21 are expanding their sizing for larger sized teen girls. This is in response to demand and to ensure that all young girls have the option of cute stylish clothes. This seems a wise business decision to me. And yet now J.Crew, which has gotten so much press lately with Michelle Obama, is going to limit their sizes and alienate a large part of their normal - not 'plus' sized - demographic.....
As for the size 0. It has gotten ridiculous. My PS at the Collection Store tells me not to even bother to try certain things, eg the Falling Petals jacket, recently, as I'd have to have it essentially re-made to fit. I appreciate his honesty. I bought the poppy jacket and while it is cute and can be worn in a 'boyfriend' style, it fits me nothing like in the online photos - the top button is way down below my sternum and there is about 8 inches of crossover in the front if it were to button correctly for my size....Their Croquet cardi was also at least 3-4 inches bigger all over, including in the shoulder, than last years extremely similarly styled Martine cardi. It is very annoying...
As with Sydneygirl, I'm excited about xxs! For years, I've admired JCrew's designs, but I just couldn't fit into any of their blouses or slacks. Therefore, I shopped mainly at Banana and Ann Taylor's petite racks. Maybe JCrew is trying to branch out to younger shoppers or just those with "teen figures," but whatever the reason, I'm all for including petite women.
ReplyDeleteI am really glad they are offering XXS because I think it would suck if you were one of the people who used to be a 0 until they did the stupid vanity sizing change. But why must they completely eliminate larger sizes for some items? That's totally ridiculous. Obviously, they have already ticked off some of us JCAs and I'm sure it will alienate many of their customers!
ReplyDeleteMs. Cupcake, I agree that JCrew seems to cater to smaller chested women. I totally understand that they can't make clothes to fit every chest size but I wear a 34D also (a pretty small one) and have fit problems with many of their tops. The only place they have done well with catering to a variety of sizes is in their swimwear, where they offer the D cup tops. Remember when they used to offer tall sizes in items like dresses? That was so awesome. The seams from the waist to the hips on the back of dresses always falls way too high on me... not a good look!
I also agree with lauren that JCrew needs to get over themselves. I'm so sick of them touting how their fabric comes from the best places in the hills of Italy or how their leather is tanned by a 5000 year old process. I think they are the only ones who care about that crap. I care about being able to buy clothes that fit and don't fall apart after 3 wearings and I have a feeling most of JCrew's customers feel the same!
To balancing off some complaints of jcrew sizing, I am sharing my experience. Over the past 5-6 years, only one jcrew size fit me best. In that size, I never have the problem that an item run large or small. I only made sense of some discussions about an item running large or small when my size wasn't available and I had to size down or up. Therefore, I think whether jcrew sizing is off depend on your body type.
ReplyDeleteEm, your comment is priceless:
ReplyDelete"I'm so sick of them touting how their fabric comes from the best places in the hills of Italy or how their leather is tanned by a 5000 year old process."
If I want to read stories in a catalog, I'd be flipping through J. Peterman :D
vdkn: I feel your pain. I've been a size 6 since high school, but need a 4 in JCrew, and since the talls run big, now need a 2 tall in pants. They really need to offer a 0 tall if I am able to wear a 2 tall... they must be sizing out alot of people by making their talls run soooo huge!
ReplyDeleteWell, this does cause a bit of concern. The bigger sizes are getting edged out, but is an 8 the new 12? This shouldn't be so much of a guessing game.
ReplyDeleteI recently read this article that made some interesting points about why retailers are cutting back on larger sizes:
http://www.doublex.com/section/life/real-reason-ann-taylor-hates-plus-sizes
One of the points was that while the AVERAGE size of a woman in the U.S. is a 12, what that really means is that there are enough people above a 12 to balance out all the ones below.
This graph illustrates what I mean - while the "Average" American Female is something like 5'4", 162lbs, the most COMMON weight for a woman is either 130 or 140. Big difference.
http://www.deepglamour.net/.a/6a00e553bc5256883401156fef52f5970c-popup
So while I can see that J.Crew would be cutting back on the larger sizes, since they're more expensive to produce, and they probably sell the most items in sizes 2-6, I don't think it's really fair for them to edge out curvier women. I do wear a size 12, and when I went into a J.Crew store recently, I had a hard time finding much in my size at all. It put a bad taste in my mouth. You can only love clothes that actually fit you.
It may cost a few dollars more per item to cut a larger size, but if they reduce the scope of their potential market by not offering sizes 12-16, they are losing sales (and profits still).
ReplyDeleteI ordered the Indigo floral blouse on Friday in size 14 and I noticed that by Monday morning all the size 12s and 14s were sold out (all the other sizes were still there). Also, whenever I check the sales racks at the store there's only sizes XS and S left. Clearly people are buying the larger sizes!
This is not only annoying on a practical level but it is also kind of offensive.
I emailed a complaint to J.Crew-they said they would "send it on to the powers that be" at the home office-haven't heard a word since! Just wondering-what size is Mrs. Obama?? Is she a size 10? Would she not be able to buy some of the fall collection? I am a size 10-I shouldn't have to lose weight to fit into J.Crew! Most L and XL sell out first on-line and the stores never have L in after the first week.
ReplyDeleteI have always been a small person, I usually wear a size 6 or an 8 petite. If I were to choose to listen to women's clothing vendors these days, I'd end up thinking I was too big!
ReplyDeleteThe "vanity sizing" worries me alot, especially as I have a daughter who is just becoming a teen and more and more focused on clothing and appearance.
Also, it would be great if J Crew offered petite sizing in sweaters and knit wear (I have some old J Crew petite sweaters). This usually solves the fit problem for the chest area and the rest of the garment - it's a matter of proportion.
Petite sizing issue is why I purchase fewer clothes at J Crew and more at Ann Taylor and even Eddie Bauer.
Corry and others,
ReplyDeleteThe new LLBean line is great! Most of it sold out very quickly this season. LLBean offers free shipping and free returns and monogramming on their items if you have their credit card. Excellent perks, consistent (VERY) fit, and no return time limit. Been a fan since I was 16! Best customer service should any issues arise. I have never had a problem with receiving any defective items either in all those years!
I'm a size 14 or 16, depending on the item, and I'm happy that J. Crew's making clothes for smaller women (because smaller women exist, and yes, they too are fabulous!), but I share the pissed-off sentiment about my favorite clothing manufacturer trying to rebrand itself as a snooty couture house that only carries up to size 8. It *sucks.* It sucks that they refuse to carry larger jeans, or any of the cute print shorts, or many of the collection items, in the sizes so many of us call home. And it *sucks* that they're contributing to the culture that tells women their healthy, average bodies aren't acceptable. Over the last decade, they'd have seen a *lot* more of my money if they made more of their line available at the top of the size range. And others of you are right - the largest sizes sell out so fast, there's no way there's "not enough demand!"
ReplyDeleteATL offers 00, XXS and XXSP as well as BR offers XS or XSP and I've found that to be my size consistently. I don't care what numbering/symbol system they use. I have to agree that Jcrew's 0 has been running inconsistently. So I would really appreciate if they came out in XXS! For example, I love the ruffle cotton satin top; however, the size 0 runs big on me. If they had it in 0P or 00, I think it'd be perfect for me.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention the lydia blouses, elizabeth blouses that also run large on me, but I love them so much that my only solution is to wear them under a cardigan or jacket.
Slightly OT but speaking of size & fit...
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone find the fit of the Cafe Capris odd in the -ahem- crotch area?
I tried the 4 (a bit too small) and the 6 (a bit too big) in-store, then ordered the P6. They do fit nicely in the bum and waist, but there's all kinds of gathered fabric over the fly and top of the thighs.
Are these just a wonky fit on me, or is this how they are supposed to be? The photo on the JC site looks like it may have the extra fabric as well, tough to tell.
Congrats to all that need an XXS!
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, that is not the case for me. Looks like no more JCrew for JCrewAdorer.
Last week I ordered some tops in my usual size. They were too big! Note that I am 10 lbs heavier from having a baby! I had to size down to a size smaller than what I was before the baby. It's not hard to see that the sizing is totally off. When I spoke with the CS, she was like, oh yes, things are definitely cut fuller this season. Ya think?! Some items, like the t-shirts, I have to size up in, and other items, like sweaters and cardigans, I have to size down in. I have had to do SO many reorders/exchanges/returns that I am probably on a black list for J.Crew. It is such a waste of time and resources. I want to know that when I order an item, It will fit in my size!!
ReplyDeleteYellow Lux, thanks for THIS LINK about why stores are cutting back on larger sizes. While I might risk being excommunicated for saying this, I agree with some of the cited reasons. It makes sense when looking at the distribution of weights across the female population.
ReplyDeleteHere is the real debate: Should it be up to the clothing retailers to be democratic across sizes or should they do what's best for the bottom line and cut the sizes women aren't buying? Unfortunately there is no easy answer for this question.
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ReplyDeleteCliquot - just a guess, but it may mean that the front rise on your pants is too long.
ReplyDeleteHaha, A&F probably has one of the worst size runs in terms of mental perception for women. I am an XS or S for almost every other brand out there, and I consistently wear at least a L or XL at A&F. I haven't heard or seen anything about them including larger sizes, but if they are, I hope they plan to adjust their existing size range, otherwise they'll just be adding XXL, XXXL, etc., which is really just a normal size for the rest of the world.
ReplyDeleteCorry, I completely understand what you mean. Even the petite pants sometimes fit differently, and there are times when 0 is too big or too small. Also, I've noticed that the 0 in petite is much smaller than the 0 for regular pants, which somehow ends up being extremely roomy on me, not just longer. In terms of offerring XXS for tops, this would be greatly appreciated, because for J.Crew's knit tops especially, the XS runs large and also stretches. I have had to have a lot of the perfect fit tees taken in because they are all too large.
ReplyDeleteMy size changing from item to item plus the final sale equals decreased spending at J. Crew on my part.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, Tina, but I have to politely disagree with you, based on my own experiences with JC.
ReplyDelete"Here is the real debate: Should it be up to the clothing retailers to be democratic across sizes or should they do what's best for the bottom line and cut the sizes women aren't buying? Unfortunately there is no easy answer for this question."
I have a hard time believing size 10+ aren't selling...every time I go into my local B&M (usually within a day or two of new arrivals going on the floor), those sizes are already gone. Granted, my PS says they never send enough of those sizes, but what they are sending is selling out within a matter of days. That said, those sizes are selling out at full-price, so it seems like the cost for the extra fabric/labor shouldn't even be an issue.
Lauren "i'm 5'11" and a 12/14 (working on being a 10/12, but that's beside the point! ;))..."
ReplyDeleteI share your dimensions and frustration. I do not believe that vanity sizes apply to the 12/14 range. Actually they are quite skimpy! JCrew does not proportion the the patterns to fit taller women. They just add inches, even with their tall's. Adding a few inches to the arms is not a tall, we are not monkeys! To make a correct size up they need to lower the arm holes, lengthen the waists, increase the rise.
I am an ebay reseller. Here is some information I have Jcrew probably doesn't know. For my listings, smaller sizes, such as xs 0, have more or at least as many as watchers larger sizes, such as L XL 10 12 14, have. However, more larger sizes were sold and they were sold quicker.
ReplyDeleteI do not know exact interpretation of the data. However, at least I learned to stock more larger sizes and I learned not to expect a smaller size to sell even it has 20+ watchers.
Jodi: "we are not monkeys". Amen to that! I'm 5'10" and while my arms are freakishly long I second your comment. I don't think they do a great job of changing the proportions for talls either.
ReplyDeleteHey cliquot, I have the same problem with cafe capris. I have a couple of pairs in size 4 and a couple in size 6, but neither size seems just right on me. I wish they made a size 5! The 4 is a bit tight in the thighs and the 6 is too loose around the waist, arrghh! I guess I should avoid cafe capris, but I just love the colors and overall styling of those pants. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteha ha, Em. It's so true. Wool from a Yeti in the Himalayas! Hand loomed linen from the from a stone-age Celtic village in Ireland...that pills the first time you wear it.
ReplyDeletehee hee hee.
Interesting article Yellow lux. But still, bollocks to un-inclusive sizing!!
Jodi, exactly! gap is doing a lot better with tall sizing. most of the t-shirts at j.crew are too short for me, anyway.
ReplyDeleteI have 2 pairs of this years Summerweight Bermuda Shorts, grey in size 10, and stone in size 8. There is very little difference between the sizes, both are loose on me.
ReplyDeleteMaybe if they quit the manufacturing in China sizing would be more consistent, along with their designer ambitions to become a high scale retailer.
regarding vanity sizing, i am 5'9", 145 and there is no way I should be able to squeeze into a size 6 skirt, much less have the waistband baggy on one. I am an 8/10 usually.
ReplyDeletevanity sizing seems to be bottoms only phenomenon for me - i am significantly pear shaped, with top half much much smaller, however mysteriously take an 8 or a medium in Jcrew tops and jackets versus my size 6 jcrew skirting experiences lately.
I hope this new size XXS does become available in a lot of the items. I love some of the tops and jackets from recent years, but the problem is that they are so big on me. I used to always buy a size 0 and I had no problem. Something similar happened with the jeans. I used to wear size 26 and then all of the sudden even that size was too big. I know they are carrying some jeans on the size 25 now which is great. I wish they start carrying a 00 size, just like Banana Republic. I love so many of the recent JCrew clothes but they are too big for me.
ReplyDeleteGuess this means even MORE of my money will stay in my pocket now. I am a size 16 & large chested. It is so frustrating not be able to wear any of the cuter tops, skirts, printed pants or shorts, or even some of the sweaters that refuse to button. Guess this new development will cut out all chances of me buying JCrew - with no size 16 pants or XL shirts there will be no reason to even waste my time lusting after their clothes any more!
ReplyDeleteTHANKS JCREW.
WOW....
ReplyDeleteGreat topic Alexis!
The moment I saw the title for the thread I thought, "Yes, now I can talk about how frustrated/confused/discouraged I feel when faced w. Jcrew's sizing decisions". Then I read thru all my fab JCAs (& JC guy in Canada - thanks for the alternative viewpoint) & found that y'all pretty much covered it.
I know that like tastymoog, I'm frustrated buy the extra trouble & expense of ordering a special size online. Also, as with SEMom, I miss the petite sweaters (mine are so loved they have mends on mends now). I am thankful that jcrew offers specialty sizing, but I agree that it would be nice if it was more readily available.
Also I agree w. SEmom & Rae that I wonder what sort of message this is sending to our younger JCAs. Like Sydneygirl I'm confused by jcrew's decision to limit their sizing & alienate a growing market that jcrew, as a competitive clothier, would want to tap. Here's the article she mentioned earlier :
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/fashion/18plus.html?ref=fashion
That indicated an increase in customers in the special sizes. So if there are more customers out there who would buy clothes in those sizes, why is jcrew limiting their availability?
I agree that the article cited by Yellow Lux does mention the challenges of designing & producing special sizes. However, the article also concludes:
"the trend toward putting bigger sizes online, thus pooling shoppers from all over and turning niche sizes into large markets...isn’t an insult or judgment of personal worth. It’s a practical way to give women with relatively uncommon bodies clothes that might actually fit."
So they aren't doing away with the sizes, just moving them from instore to online. Also, the challenge of designing for a variety of sizes has been around for quite some time. One would hope that the industry has come up with some techniques & new technology to help.
Finally, as Jcrew guy in Canada pointed out, there seems to be no problem in keeping the menswear sizing consistent. It's a widely accepted fact that menswear, with it's sizing based on measurements, is more reliable in size & fit than womens clothes. I know some of it has to do with styling, fit models, (probably why jcrew dresses run smallish on top) & new designs. Still, it's a little hard to believe that clothes for women are so very different.
Sorry everyone, this ended up being a rather long post. I guess what I mean to say is "I'm with all my fab JCAs when I say, please design & produce clothes for all of us!"
Thanks,
Heather:D
Just to echo Cliquot and JKW--I have a small waist/tummy compared to hips/bum/thighs, so I have a hard time with pants anyway--but out of all Crew pants, cafe capris fit best, so I have a few pair. That said, I agree that there is a lot of "bulk" in the zipper area, so that the fly doesn't lie as flat as it should. Same thing for the Claire chino.
ReplyDeleteWith the way the sizing keeps changing, it sounds as if a size 12 or 14 could actually end up being the size 8 that will be the largest J.Crew carries. Perhaps they won't be doing away with the larger sizes after all, just continuing further down the vanity sizing path?
ReplyDeleteOT, was just in Rockefellar store and they had a bunch of the straw totes with the fabric flower for $19.99. It's currently online for $39.99.
ReplyDeleteAnd, as usual, every size sweater left on the sale rack was XS/S. :P
I've noticed that on jcrew's website size P0 is almost never available (they always sell out first). Also size XXS on the ruffle tank is already backordered (was not this way a few days ago). There must be demand!
ReplyDeleteYellow Lux, I also saw that article about Ann Taylor putting their size 16's exclusively online. Very interesting.
ReplyDeleteThe author didn't explain this super-clearly, but the simple idea behind the article is that women's weights (along with BMI and size typically worn) are heavily positively skewed within the population. That is, the mean of the distribution lies in the top-end of the tail, so that the mean weight (~164 lbs.) exceeds the median (hard to tell, but somewhere between 130 and 164 lbs.), while the mode is around 130 lbs.
Hence, retailers are faced with a 'thin' market in the upper parts of the size distribution: not enough people fit into any given size to justify producing it.
It doesn't surprise me that when we encounter hard economic times (demand decreases for sizes across the board), larger sizes pass that discrete profitability cut-off. Even small fixed costs associated with producing a new size (big or small) would probably create this problem.
Unfortunately, understanding this does nothing to help the ladies who now have fewer clothing options.
If J crew knows what is good for them, they will use their sales information--and to a lesser extent this blog--to make product-line decisions, and not allow 'mean-girl fashionistas' (love that!) to run the business into the ground.
Ditto FFM. I think that Jcrew will still carry the larger sizes...they will just be "disguised" as size 8 and size 10 instead of size 12 and size 14.
ReplyDeleteOn another note though, what's up with Gap sizing? I have had to buy a small in nearly all of the tops there recently...and one things for sure - I am NOT a small!! I always wonder where the skinny people shop then!
As someone in the 12-14 range, I personally believe that JCrew's vanity sizing stops at about a size 10. Take JCrew's jeans for example- in designer jeans (Sevens, Citizens, Joes) I can commonly wear a size 32. However, I can RARELY squeeze into a size 32 at JCrew, and often a 33 is even tight! I am not getting bigger, and it seems ludicrous that a size 33, which is supposed to be a "14-16" seriously fits smaller than a designer 12.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the issue is that curvier girls in bigger sizes often have bodies shaped much differently than 0's and 2s, and this is why the sizing effects us so differently.
Yesterday, I got a size 14 dress in the mail, which I sized up to accommodate my DD chest. When I put it on, the empire waist seriously cut my chest in half. A size 14 dress, designed for a woman with up to a C chest- it's ridiculous.
I LOVE J.Crew's clothes and I hope they do continue the larger sizes. I do not personally believe that us girls that are 12/14 will end up wearing an 8 in J.Crew. Especially if we have well endowed T&A ;-)
Donna, I agree wholeheartedly about the designs made for smaller chest sizes (I know others said this too). I have to size up in J Crew dresses (and many tops) solely because of my chest size. With silk tricotine dresses the effect is a more flowy waist and skirt, which is fine. But more often the result is they fit fine on top but are too baggy everywhere else.
ReplyDeleteNot every size 6 woman has a B or C chest but every size 6 J Crew dress is made for those cup sizes or smaller. Sigh.
Check this out....I was looking at skirts at Gap.com when I saw a model wearing a very cute pair of sandals. I looked in their shoe section and didn't see it for sale. Then I realized, she is wearing the J CREW vachetta sandals!
ReplyDeleteSee links:
http://www.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=26650&vid=1&pid=646515
http://www.polyvore.com/vachetta_sandals_flip-flops_women_jcrew.com/thing?id=829050
I know that several of the SA's at my B&M's are not small girls. I'm sure that J Crew encourages them to wear J Crew clothing, but what will they wear if J Crew doesn't carry their size? Seems silly to me. If the average US woman is a size 12, J Crew is alienating a lot of women!
ReplyDeleteThe vanity sizing has to stop. It's gotten to the point where size 0 pants are too loose on me (the ones bought this year, that is). In my closet I have J Crew clothes that are between 2 and 10 years old, and include sizes between 2-6, and they still fit me! So the "mystery" of vanity sizing is no mystery to me. If a size 6 from 5 years ago fits me, and a size 0 from 2009 is too big...seems pretty obvious that they're engaging in crazy vanity sizing.
ReplyDeleteIf they are making XXS tops, are they going to make 00 or 000 pants? That's just ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where I am nervous about buying stuff on e-Bay because a 0 from this season fits, but a 0 from 1 or 2 seasons ago would probably be too small on me.
Their phasing out of "larger" sizes sucks too...
Well not to beat a dead horse...but I ordered one of the ruffle tanks in XXS the FIRST day they told me I could i.e.the day the new arrivals went online - they told my PS it could NOT be ordered until then. I get an order number etc. Now I find they somehow 'forgot' my order and the top is now backordered in XXS. This is REALLY bad service. I was about to order a Collection skirt that is a New Arrival but I am mad that they can't seem to get a simple order processed.
ReplyDeleteI was talking to friend and we feel that they are very lucky so much of us love J.Crew clothes as otherwise we would never put up with their 'service' - at least on the phone, which seems hit or miss. When I compare to other companies - some people have mentioned LL Bean, I also found incredibly good service from Victorias Secret for example.
Also, they will no longer allow you to have both free shipping from the red phone on full price items AND your teacher/student discount. You can only have one or the other. The red phone used to be their big thing they promoted vs other stores. Now they are taking away their discounts all over the place. I was told this was a new policy.
OK sorry if I ranted a bit. I am not usually a complainer.
And Heather, thank you for the link and the further info on the NY Times article I mentioned. Although I happen to be tall and thin, I think it is extremely important to consider the effect on young girls when clothing is not available in their size...
As a J Crew lover and size 12/14 I am SO frustrated with J Crew sizing! A size 14 is NEVER sent to a store- only online and as a jcrew.com junkie the size 14 sells out very quickly- It was the first size to disappear in the Ikat dress and Indigo Blouse just to mention a few. I cannot tell you how many times items in a size 14/XL disappear from my cart.
ReplyDeleteDitto to those that brought up how the sale racks are always full of the smaller sizes, never XL's or Larges.
Cass- keep me posted if you don't like the Indigo blouse in a 14- I had it in my cart and it disappeared!
I wish the Vanity sizing applied to size 12/14 but I can assure you that it does not....
i am very excited about this! i think everyone's opinions are really just dependent on what size they are. maybe jcrew is trying to capture more of the gen Y shoppers out there as i've been seeing younger customers in their stores recently...
ReplyDeleteIf J.Crew is planning to eliminate certain sizes, I have to say it is one of the most absurd things I have heard of lately, especially with the current state of the economy. One would think they would WANT all sizes of women to shop with them, not exclude a large majority.
ReplyDeleteCass and Twiga: It sounds like we need to switch B&M's. The smaller sizes are always sold out at mine, while the larger sizes are still on the shelves. If I don't make it in when the new arrivals first come out then I completely miss out on getting my size in the store and have to order online. It's really a hassle, so now I usually just order online if there's a free shipping code and then return it if it doesn't fit. J.Crew seems to be making it harder and harder to shop with them.
I am not petite but I wear the smallest size in J Crew in everything but jeans. It's really frustrating when I try on the smallest size and it's swimming on me. I end up at Banana because I wear a 2 there and if I have to size down, I have someplace to go. Even though I can't wait for J Crew to add a 00 and XXS, I think it is a mistake to get rid of sizes above 8. Clinton and Stacey of "What Not to Wear" said in a recent episode that size 12 is the most popular size and sells out fast.
ReplyDeleteHi again,
ReplyDeleteYou're quite welcome Sydneygirl. I thought that article was v. relevant & am glad you mentioned it earlier.
So sorry to hear that your order disappeared. I get so discouraged when things like that happen.
Also, thanks for the heads up for the change in policy re the red phones. I must admit that I'm rather surprised / disappointed. After all, jcrew has used the redphone + free shipping as a response to the lack of selection in their B&Ms so effectively in the past. I guess now the company line is; "Sorry if you're interested in something that isn't in stock, feel free to pay extra $$$ to try it on". I guess it's one more reason to walk past my JCrew & into Banana Republic or Anne Taylor.
Oh & I took a closer look at that article in the Atlantic. It has a link to an earlier post by the same author:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200712/clothes
This article goes into more depth about sizing standards & includes a diagram showing 5 different body scans of women who would all be considered a size 8. Pretty interesting. Thanks again to Yellow Lux for the link.
Thanks everyone for a thought provoking & informative thread!
Heather:D
this article explains why I can now wear 0 in the summer bermuda.
ReplyDeletesizing is inconistent in most stores, and brands
sleeves are way too long
some petite pants are too long
some shirs/tees are too tiny for this 32D to wear even in a large.
one of the reasons i have been happy with buying JC online for the past year has been for the most part consistent sizing. guess that might change
OT
ReplyDeletebut did anyone notice the jersey knit pants (w/ exposed backzip) are back? Item # 97643. In black and blue. Sizes 0-10. I guess it's the leggings that were in the lookbook, but those seemed more like footless tights to me (thinner?).
Also, the sizing chart link used to be at the bottom of the screen, but I have to click on Help to find it. xxs/00 is listed.
Donna, i can definitely relate! i, too, have had my chest bisected by j.crew's empire waist dresses. :)
ReplyDeleteI'm on the smaller side and I find at least a 1/3 of the time I could size down to an XXS if J. Crew offered it in tops. I am glad to see that they may start to offer XXS in more items.
ReplyDeleteI find it silly that J. Crew would stop carrying sizes above an 8 but then again I think many couture designers limit the sizes they manufacture a design in. It seems like Barney’s only has 00, 0 & 2 on their racks. Maybe J. Crew wants to be perceived as high end, esp. with some of the collection pieces.
I know it has been addressed before, but how do you get rid of the "forbidden message?"
ReplyDeleteFFM- How funny about our different sale sections! We need our own red phone and the ability to call each other from the sale section to compare notes:)
ReplyDeleteI politely disagree with JcrewguyinCanada.
ReplyDeleteI recently purchased the Utility jacket for my husband in his usual size. It was very narrow in the shoulders but fit everywhere else. My husband's shape has not changed and the other items in the order, including another jacket, fit fine. When I contacted CS they told me the utility jacket was cut slightly smaller than usual and he should size up. Since a larger size would not have fit well everywhere but the shoulders, I just returned it.
So be forewarned, they may be dicking around with the men's sizes now too.
Twiga: That's a great idea! :)
ReplyDeleteLeader: I got the Forbidden message most of the weekend. J.Crew said they were purposely blocking IP addresses and if I wasn't able to get back on after 6 hours to email them again. I'm sure it was due to heavy traffic on their website with the new arrivals. There really isn't anything you can do but wait it out, or log on from another computer with a completely different IP address. It took right up to the 6 hour mark each time I got the message before I was able to get back on again.
OT: have the West Coast CC holders received their lookbook yet? I thought I would have received mine by now.
ReplyDeleteHexicon: I haven't received a look book yet..
ReplyDeleteTweetleBeetle: excellent observation! They're the Rimini Vachetta's in the color Burnt Sienna. I love those sandals! :)
ReplyDeleteI haven't noticed much of a change in sizing. I went from a 6 to a 4 in bottoms this year but I'm fitter and my old clothes are looser so I don't see a huge difference. I still take a 10 on top as I need room for the girls and I don't find the size 10 has changed recently. I have some size 8 tops from J.Crew that are over 5 years old and they still fit but the cut was not as tailored as the newer tops I have.
ReplyDeleteI bought the silk/cotton paisley perfect shirt in size 10 when it first came out and I'm glad I did because the larger sizes quickly sold out online and I don't see the top at all in my B&M so I'm thankful I was able to snag one as it is a gorgeous shirt. Not sure what to make of the decreased size range, surely it is not good news for those who can no longer wear the styles they love. Hopefully the crew will adjust to reality.
I frequently try two different sizes on at J.Crew (and everywhere else I shop) and I never considered it a problem. I just assumed everyone's bodies were different and different styles might need different sizes.
ReplyDeleteAs far as eliminating size above 8 (!), maybe we should just see the fall rollout first. Maybe the lookbook has limited sizes for very expensive things because those have sold more for them in those sizes in the past? I can't imagine they would really eliminate 10's and 12's in stores.
Also, in my stores, I see lots of large sizes and not as many small sizes. Just goes to show you, different parts of the country have different demands!
tastymoog, thanks for pointing out the stretch pants are back, I think I may try them. I like how they are more substantial than leggings.
Donna,
ReplyDeleteI have the same feeling. I know I've put on a little weight, but their 12s feel WAY too tight anymore. I haven't been able to purchase bottoms for awhile now because I can't find anything that fits.
I also have a terrible time with their dress shirts. I don't have a huge chest, but I've never been able to find a shirt that didn't gap in the front, even if I sized up...which only led to hugeness everywhere but where I needed it.
"As someone in the 12-14 range, I personally believe that JCrew's vanity sizing stops at about a size 10." Donna, you are absolutely correct. This has been my experience at JCrew.
ReplyDeleteLauren - you might check out the Talls at BR. They are having a sale and you can stack discount codes. Unfortunately, I have not liked their recent styles as much as JCrew's
Back to JCrew, I did mention to my SA that just adding x number of inches to the sides of a set pattern does not make a M into an L or an L into an XL - really that is all they are doing to size up tees. I have tried to size up to an XL for the bust and still cannot use their tees because the armholes are not lengthened(shoulders either). Elementary pattern making from my old HS home ecomonics class many years ago.
Nicole, I have also given up on bottoms, except for a couple of skirts. The pants are a no go for me also.
ReplyDeleteI'm really hoping that J.Crew begins to produce both XXS and 00. Although, a better idea would be to produce size 0's that run the way most 0's are supposed to. I really love J.Crew's clothes but it's truly frustrating when I try on XS and 0 shirts only to find that they're way too big.
ReplyDeleteI'm generally a 0 or 2 in shirts, so it's such a surprise to find that J.Crew's clothing doesn't fit at all. If only they would adjust their sizing to 'normal' standards!
Hexicon . . . no lookbook for me yet, either, in the Puget Sound area (Washington). dang.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone's comments about the vanity sizing, but thought I'd offer a slightly different perspective as I am now 6.5 months pregnant.
ReplyDeleteI have gained 20 lbs over my prepregnancy weight and while I was a petite 0 or 2 for most other stores, I was pretty much forced to buy 0 or 2, whatever size JC was offering. Mostly this led to tops that were a smidge longer than I would have liked--mostly I tucked or half tucked.
I must say, I never thought I could still get away with wearing my JC prepregnancy clothes--tops mostly--the victoria camis, hammered silk tanks and rosette tanks are in regular rotation for work along with all of my v neck short sleeve cardis. City fit 2s on bottom still work too with the front of the waistband flipped down. There is just a lot of room in there with the sizing the way that it is.
The offering of xxs just gives me more of a headache trying to figure out what to buy now. I really don't want to buy a bunch of upsized clothes, but I also have no idea what xxs means anymore at JC.
I think the real issue is not sizing but operation. If J.Crew can optimize SKU per size based on better demand projection, they should be able to increase profits without cutting out sizes.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that J.Crew doesn’t allocate enough resource to its operation. Its operation level appears to be below industry standards in many ways; sizing is not consistent, wrong items are still shipped to me (its’ been a year since internet fiasco, though), a name and size of the item do not match with the information on the label, pre-order system does not work properly and no waiting-list service is offered… I do appreciate recent addition of a nice feature (20min cancel rule), but I do hope that J.Crew will continue to make efforts to improve its operation for customers.
Twiga, just got the indigo top today. Pretty sure I'm keeping it but I'll let you know if I change my mind.
ReplyDeleteOT, went in to the store today and there were some new arrivals not pictured in the catalog or online (yet) - just out on the floor today: reviews and IRL pics posted!
ReplyDeletejcbellemarie.blogspot.com
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI am so excited to learn that J.Crew is making size XXS. After 10 years shopping with J.Crew, I do noticed that their sizes are getting bigger and bigger. P0 these days is definitely bigger than years ago. I am gaining weight over the years and still can't keep up with their size increase. I bought a P0 skirt last year and the waist of that skirt is 28". I think for size P0, 28" is even too large for the skirt to hang on my hip. I hope this would be a successful change.
ReplyDeletejcrew definitely favors small chested girls like myself and i appreciate that -- boden, for example, favors larger chested women and their dresses/tops often are too big for me (even if they fit in the waist). my wife, who usually wears 10, often requires 14 for jcrew tops to accomodate her chest size (and she's had the same experience with empire waist dresses that others mentioned here)
ReplyDeleteI understand the frustration with larger sizes being reduced or eliminated, but JCrew is, at bottom, a business with the goal of maximizing profit. A decision like this would not have been made without extensive data and research showing that it was financially prudent. Though JCrew undoubtedly wants to establish itself as a "luxury" mid-priced brand, there is no way they would make this decision unless it helped their bottom line. The best thing for people who are adversely affected to do is call JCrew and complain.
ReplyDeletenewyork0311, I agree- I love Ann Taylor Loft. I'm so glad they have petite sizing and also XXS and 00.
ReplyDeleteI hope J. Crew comes out with 00 pants/skirts/dresses because all of this vanity sizing madness has changed everything! I don't really fit into most of their clothes at all. Especially pants, shorts, etc. I'm glad that they're adding XXS!
I think Gap also has large sizing.. By that I mean that their actual sizes are too large for the number labeled.
ReplyDeleteYou know who's opinion I'd love to have on this topic? The blonde sales associate at the Madison Ave. collection store who is a larger size (12?). I saw her in there last spring looking SO cute in the yellow and white striped skirt. It's nice when the sales associates are different sizes. The vanity sizing has gotten ridiculous. I was a size 6 a few years ago, have gained a little weight since then, and now am consistently a size 4, sometimes a 2! Crazy!
ReplyDeletei find it curious, the complaints that only XS and S sizes are left on the sale racks at the B&M. i live on the west coast, in proximity to about 4 B&Ms that i visit quite regularly. they almost never have my size on the sale racks - XS or 0. and the 0 hardly qualifies as my size now, because they run big on me.
ReplyDeleteI'm so relieved that other people have noticed this problem. I've stayed the same size (5'2", 110lb), but over the last ten or so years the size I wear in J Crew has gone from medium to small to XS, and now it seems like most of the XS's are too big. I am wearing clothes with holes because I can't find clothes that fit. J Crew - we small (and large) people have money to spend! I guess I may as well cancel my J Crew card.
ReplyDeletePS- There's a new website called myshape.com where you input your measurements (all kinds of things I'd never measured before!) and they show you only clothes that would fit. J Crew is on their list of retailers. I haven't tried it out very thoroughly, but it may take a lot of frustration out of shopping. Maybe it will encourage manufacturers to get their sizing act together.
ReplyDeletei guess they never implemented the xxs b/c i haven't seen it. they used to make a lot more items in petite sizes and i see they have reduced that quite a bit.
ReplyDeletei find the sizing quite ridiculous actually. i used to be able to wear their clothes but i really can't now. i just tried on an xs cashmere cardigan at the store and it was huge; the 3/4 sleeves went down to my wrists. that wasn't the first time. anyway, i swear they must use very tall models and stick them in sizes that are "too small." it's sad b/c i do like the style.
Every time I go into J. Crew, the song, "Short people got no reason to live" floats through my mind.
ReplyDeleteThe petites are getting the short end of the stick, once again. Being 5'1, I literally have to shop in children's now. How demeaning for someone aged 28...and all to cater to vanity...
Petites and XXS and 0 sell out immediately everywhere now...know why? The entire true petite population is scrambling for articles of clothing that fit (even remotely so they can be tailored). We've been completely sized out. I feel on the contrary the entire "love your curves" movement is very biased toward only the curvy women, what about the smaller ladies? no love there because the majority of the population is obese.
The only time I fit into clothing is literally in a vintage store. Shoes shoulders, everything fits. Clothes SWIM on me now...it was cute to shop in Forever 21 when I was 21...but at 30, looking for classic basics, it is depressing.
I'm literally thinking of taking to the sewing machine to create clothes from scratch.
J.Crew! The little ladies need you to stop the vanity sizing!!!