Tuesday, April 24, 2012

J.Crew's Jenna Lyons Doesn't Fall into the Gap

I ran across the following article from the Business Insider (click here to read in its entirety), that had some interesting quotes from J.Crew's Jenna Lyons:

Here's Why Gap Doesn't Stand A Chance Against J.Crew
By Aimee Groth
April 20, 2012

J.Crew has been dominating its retail sector for years, which has a lot to do with the company's visionaries, CEO Mickey Drexler and President and Creative Director Jenna Lyons.

Lyons recently spoke with Tommye Fitzpatrick at Business of Fashion about the company's retail philosophy, and why J.Crew has forged ahead of Gap:

"Make people feel special. Making people realize you’re paying attention to them is going to be increasingly important, because I don’t think people feel very special anymore. Instead of the classic model, like, here’s a Gap store and here’s a thousand other Gap stores, we’ve really focused on trying to make sure each of our New York stores feel really special and jewel box. We want you to feel like there’s a reason to go into the store. You were in the downtown store, but that actually has slightly different product, has a different mood than the uptown store.”

The key is differentiation. But in creating that, you can't make a bunch of huge changes right away, she says, or you risk losing your customer base: “You can’t do anything quickly. You kind of have to go slow because you have a bunch of customers to get there with you. You can’t flip on them because that can get really confusing to people."

She says that problems are addressed really quickly, too — like how when she complained J.Crew's cashmere products were terrible years ago, Drexler simply said to "change it," and now the company is known for its cashmere. As with any industry, brilliant ideas go nowhere if there isn't good execution.
I do not know why, but this article irked me a bit. There are some quotes I took issue with. Although I love J.Crew (obviously!), I feel like they should not be patting themselves on the back for a job well done, quite yet.

For example, their cashmere quality is still no where near as good as their own cashmere from years ago. So let's not pretend like things got turned around recently. Customers are well aware that is not the case (hello terrible pilling and holes). What they do offer is the most beautiful array of colors for their cashmere sweaters. That, I will give them.

Lastly, I think the Gap is starting to turn things around. I have been checking out their dresses which are quite nice in terms of design, quality, and price points. There are a couple of new items that have been selling out quickly too- which is all great news for them.

What are your thoughts on the article? Any points you disagree or agree with? If so, please share! :)

67 comments:

  1. I'll have to agree with you, Alexis, on the irksome qualities of this article. Especially since I can't wear any of their recent cashmere pieces alone. The 'new' cashmere iritates my sensitive skin. The pieces I do get to wear over shirts develop holes so quickly. (Stay away from the cashmere tees, ugh).

    Anyway, I can also attest to Gap's better quality, design and price points. Well maybe not me so much as my closet. I've made some large purchases there over the last two months. More so, I've spent more money there in the last two months than I did in teh last two years. They are definitely worth a second look.

    Maybe J. Crew should remove the boulder in their eye before they point out the pebble in Gap's.

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    1. P.S. I just got my "Style Guide" today and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a JCA who started referring to the catalogue as such?

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  2. Thanks for sharing the article, Alexis, and I agree with you. J.Crew may have cornered the market on amazing colours and stylish-preppy styles, but the quality and fit issues that many people have noted haven't been addressed adequately IMO, not to mention their un-innovative website (hello JC, how about a wishlist? Quick Shop hover-button? and did we mention a wishlist??)...hopefully this is just PR fluff, and they "know" in their retailer-hearts that they still have room for improvement.

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  3. What an interesting article -- I don't think I've ever heard one retailer discuss another retailer by name and so dismissively. I would not have found this nearly as offensive if she did not mention Gap by name.

    And, she's sounding pretty cocky, no? As we've seen on your site here, there are lots of quality issues that have not been addressed "really quickly" -- tissue tees and dream sweaters to name a couple -- and many have noted the slow decline in the attention to detail in some of their staples -- like the coats and pencil skirts.

    However, I do agree that J.Crew does distinguish itself from Gap, in particular, in presenting styling options. I think Gap is great for staples, but to make an outfit that other people will compliment, for example, usually would take some initiative on the part of the buyer. In contrast, between J.Crews displays, catalogs, and SAs, one needs very little fashion sense to put together a great looking J.Crew outfit.

    Great article Alexis, as always!

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    1. I completely agree! Jenna sounds out of touch if she truly believes that. She really comes off as delusional. They have great colors and fun pieces, but the quality sucks - there is no other word for it. Stop talking about your greatness and go make the brand great. And let's not blame the customer to coming around slowly. If your product was excellent it wouldn't take us time to adjust.
      This article makes me like her even less.

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    2. I completely agree. She's lost touch.

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  4. Wow, Jenna has a great sense of humor! Um, Alexis, that article was a parody, right? I mean, it wasn't as funny as the time management told the SAs to say that pilling was a sign of fine quality in cashmere, but still...

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  5. I would guess that most of their customers don't shop at the special NYC stores; they probably shop at the thousands of mall J. Crew stores, just like GAP customers. The mall stores are very nice (nicer than GAP), but not jewel-box special either. Probably best that they keep their focus on the merchandise. They do color & style really well, and they have distinguished their brand in a way GAP has not, but they have real quality issues with their wool sweaters in particular. I have returned almost every one I bought this year for quality reasons, and I appreciate that they have taken them back (I have always gotten excellent customer service), but sweater quality is a weak area that they still need to address. This is apart from any cashmere issues (I haven't bought much of that).

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  6. Yeah stop focusing on special NY stores and worry about getting website and real life store pricing in sync. Get that website inline to what it should be. (reviews, wishlist, etc) Gap and JCrew don't have to have the same clothes, I don't want them to.

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  7. Their cashmere is well below par, all it has going for it is its colour range. I do love their customer service though, no one ( in Britain) does it as well as them, it's spoiling me for everyone else really.

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  8. The Gap has always been my go to place for jeans- I'd be ashamed to admit how many pairs I own. I also agree with you, Alexis, that they have been stepping up their game with some great offerings in the summer dresses; I've bought a few. With coupons, promos and free shipping over $50, they've kept me as a steady customer.

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  10. I used to try to like Gap, but they never really have anything special IMO. maybe I'm biased but a lot of other mall stores seem to just be cheaper imitations of J Crew. The quality of their items is also WAY less, particularly their T shirts (not soft) and anything leather (or should i say pleather?). AND, I will NEVER shop at gap.com again, because after making my return, I received an email saying it will take 1-2 credit card billing cycles (aka 1-2 MONTHS) to receive my money back!! absurd!

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  11. Reading between the lines, could Jenna's tactlessness be a jab at her former colleague/ boss Tracy Gardner, who's now a Gap consultant?

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    1. I think it's poor taste and bad leadership to discuss competitors. It creates noise and distraction. Focus on the voice of your customers, and they will vote with the transactions. Focus on the competition is short sighted.

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  12. You are right about the colors, Alexis, in your comment about the cashmere. J Crew does beautiful colors for its clothes, unlike the gap and Banana Republic, whose color selections are small and often drab. That is a huge difference for me.

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    1. The color is what brought me over - I love the bolds and the brights. I'm not a neutral girl and I already own a closet full of little black dresses.

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  13. Jenna, you've just talked smack about a competitor & patted your own back....what are you gonna do next?

    Well Bob, I'm gonna eventually ditch the current pesky consumer base that keeps giving us money & find a higher quality group - just like our cashmere. But we'll have to do that slowly so they feel special but not so slowly that they have a chance to visit our uptown jewel box stores in NYC & go mucking about. Maybe we'll give them a coupon to the Gap.
    Oh & rule the world.

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  14. What does a jewel box store mean? Im thinking only a few items and nothing my size.

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  15. Does pride still come before the fall? Quelle hubris. Like others have pointed out, in that vast, vast amount of the U.S. outside of NYC, J.Crew stores tend to be in malls... right next to Gaps. As for the cashmere comment, did she pull it off with a straight face? I bought a cashmere hoodie in November and returned it in December, never worn, had pilled just from waiting to be worn. I still recall the utter disappointment of opening up the box with the tinsel tweed skirt in it and finding quality that could have come from H&M. That went back, too.
    P.S. There was a tidbit in the WSJ last month about how Style Guide is what retailers now call their catalogues. Said Nordstrom started doing this last fall.

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  16. I just want to add that I think I started to like gap more than jcrew, especially with their "30% even 40% off everything" promotions. I just bought their Oxford shirt in 5 colors, a bit crazy I know, but it's so soft and comfortable, and the price is more friendly than jcrew too

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  17. I have no problem spending money at the Gap. Shopping at J Crew, on the other hand, gives me buyers remorse more often than not. At the end of the day it all gets shipped over from China, so not all that special to me either way.

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  18. Hi Alexis,

    There definitely is a back-patting quality to the article that's annoying but then again, it may be the reporter who took that angle in the kinds of questions asked of Jenna. I'd also say that Jenna's point about the Gap isn't necessarily that their product isn't good, just that all the stores are exactly the same, so no one would feel they *had* to go to a Gap store in one location because it'll be so different than a store in another location.

    But ITA about the cashmere. It strikes me as odd that Jenna and Mickey consistently take credit for J. Crew's fabulous quality when, in my mind, that *lack* of quality for the price point is the main reason I am reluctant to spend money on their clothing. The colors are great, some of the designs are fun, and they have classic pieces, but the price tag is often exorbitant when you consider the short lifespan of the product.

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  19. Wow, sounds pretty cocky to me. I think the quality of pretty much all J. Crew pieces has declined while their prices have increased. I used to buy a lot of their cashmere but now it is so cheaply made, I don't at all. The biggest disappointment lately has been their Minnie pants. I love the cut but the quality is horrible. The elastic is cheap and the pants have been pilling even though I've only had them for two months!

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  20. I started avoiding Gap because of quality issues -- just really flimsy-feeling stuff, difficulty finding any jeans that remotely fit me. I haven't had the problems with J. Crew cashmere that others apparently have, but I'm also kind of OCD about any sweaters I own (I basically cuddle them to sleep).

    I do, however, find this type of discussion (original article) sort of un-classy. I grew up doing theater and dance, and I really believe you just have to demure and not name names, even if it takes longer for people to recognize what's what. I understand that, given the audience of business people who read this magazine, J. Crew's actual strategy had to be kind of outlined concretely. I'm guessing the journalist asked about Gap because it's a very similar style and flavor.

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    1. Oh dear. Due to all the Gap love in this thread, I had a look at their website (first time in a looong time) and boy, has it changed. I already see some things I like... oh dear, oh dear!

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  21. I didn't like the tone of the quotes either, though as others point out that could be the reporter's angle.

    "Known for its cashmere"? Haa. Perhaps not for the right reasons. I'd avoided JC cashmere for several years until I got suckered into a twin set last fall. The only thing J.Crew cashmere has going for it is color, but then sometimes I just can't resist a luscious shade. So far my 2011 sweaters are in better shape than my 2005-2008 JC cashmere . . . but after having the cashmere tee in my cart for a while last September I was really irked to see that the price had increased overnight from $98 to $128. And now the same cashmere tee is $148! If only the higher price was a guarantee of quality!

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  22. J.Crew execs must believe in the self-fulfilling prophecy. If you say the goods are quality often enough, people may just start to believe it!

    I went to a B&M last week and tried about 20 pieces of clothing on but walked out with none of them. The quality was really awful but they don't care because they are chasing trends so the clothes aren't expected to last anyway.

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  23. I noticed the other day that the long sleeve cashmere tee is now $188. I believe it was $158 in December when I bought one (and returned it). I remember when the cashmere tee first debuted in 2005 or so - it was $80 and great quality!

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  24. The Business Insider linked to an article that appeared in Business of Fashion, where this appeared:

    One of the first things that Mickey did when he got here was talked about quality, and one of the things we talked about was cashmere,” Lyons continued. “I was like, ‘Ugh, all the cashmere kinda sucks.’ And he was like, ‘Then change it.’” Today, fashion insiders rave about the J.Crew cashmere offering as one of the best available anywhere.

    I find this puzzling, because I directly connect the decline in cashmere with the arrival of Dear Leader and the elevation of the Muse.

    BTW in the Business of Fashion article, the Muse actually describes her work as being just that. Hold the applause.

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    1. "I find this puzzling, because I directly connect the decline in cashmere with the arrival of Dear Leader and the elevation of the Muse."

      Well said, wellfedfred!

      I feel like the focus is less on cashmere and more on sequin and stripe overload. I've drank the crewlade but my closet is overflowing of some stuff and it looks like they are recycling the same style now - I am not seeing a how lot of interesting or fresh like I used to. I hope that changes with summer. Quality cashmere should last. As much as I love the colors and get excited for every roll out, I later get disappointed with the quality. Sadly, I would not rank J.Crew on top in quality cashmere which is why I more than likely wait for final sale for it.

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    2. Perfectly said, wellfedfred, and without mentioning names. You could teach Muse a thing or two...

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  25. OT, but does anyone know where the Brompton Mini Hobo went online?? It is completely gone. Just received my rewards card in the mail and was all ready to use it! Grrr...

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    1. Firefighter Wife, I think it's sold out now..I got a seesthesale notice saying so...if you go to the jcrew page though, it says that it's $2, 678!

      Since it was still full price, I think JC customer service can do a "We Will Find It For You" search...

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  26. I find the article ego centric versus customer centric. It seems like they have lost touch with the voice of their customer base and demonstrate a false sense of well being. I think the decline in quality of items (e.g., disposable tee shirts and camis, even with super gentle care) and the increase in prices will change the long term strategy for the customer base. Perhaps the strategy is not to compete with mall brands, which is why they are inflating prices and doing some over the top items not for real life (e.g., the ridiculous porcupine sweater that is now marked down from a laughable $550 to an even ridiculous at less than half $199).

    I used to admire Jenna but I think she, like Mickey, needs to get over herself.

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  27. At least where I live, the J. Crew B&M's are much nicer, cleaner, better organized, and better styled than the GAP stores. Plus the J. Crew SA's are amazingly awesome. But, over the past two years I have been buying a lot more at gap.com. I purchased a pair of fab colored denim and dressy black capris that fit my to the T from Gap. And it cost me half of what it would cost at J. Crew. I seriously think I tried on every pair of pants in the J. Crew store. They just do not fit me well. I also have ordered a lot of cute tops and sweaters from Gap. All of the stuff at J. Crew right now looks so basic. I need some snazzier looks. Loving the tops at Anthro right now, too.

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  28. Well... I have a hoodie and a henley bought from JCrew a couple of months ago, both with holes after a few (gentle) wears. I have NEVER had a hole in a Gap item, and I have been a very faithful Gap/BR shopper for years, so that is a lot of purchases. If a 5 year old gap tee starts looking a little worn, I know I can put it in the sleepwear drawer without feeling like a crazy person sleeping in tattered clothes.

    I only recently started veering over to JCrew more frequently, and yes it is because of the color options for basics like the pencil skirt. But it is just such a beatdown! Stalking for sales (because I personally find every single item over priced at fp), having to push my cart to such a high $ for free ship (as opposed to Gap's $50 across 5 brands), the final sale nonsense (if you're quality is so great have some faith in it!)... it is just a lot of work to shop Crew.

    I won't lie and say I am going to stop shopping there, I do adore my new pencil skirt and a good sale find here and there will keep me around. Stuff like this is certainly amusing though... there are quite a few JC stores in the Dallas area and I have never considered shopping there more often because of the store "mood". Take that back actually, I shop less at certain crews based on the snobby-ness level of the SA's.

    This is all coming from someone who is probably in their main demo too - 25, preppy post grad, big city dweller. Hey Jenna, I do not feel like you are paying attention to me!

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    1. Yes, everything you said, yes.

      Most things I have from the Gap I've had for YEARS. I have a skirt that I bought five years ago and the zipper is only now starting to stick a little. I have striped t shirts that I bought on sale for $5, again five years ago, and they're only now forming tiny little holes (and I don't want to let them go!)
      I have shirts from J Crew with gaping holes in the armpits after two washes that I paid much more than $5 for..
      Jenna seems so out of it.

      I have a love/hate with the 'Crew a lot. Sometimes their designs and colors and patterns are just so irresistible, but when I lay down $90 on a skirt, I want it to LAST. As someone (also) in their main demographic (also 25, grad student, living in NYC for chrissakes), they should kind of realize that if they're going to try to charge me that much, they should make sure that skirt is going to last me YEARS.

      ..like that $5, 5-year-old shirt I bought at the Gap.

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    2. The pencil skirts get me every time. The dramatic drops in price are irritating. I got the abstract leopard skirt at full price $138 5 weeks ago. Today it is $69.99 with 30% off in stores. I've wore it twice. Thanks, J.Crew...Arg.

      http://handbagaficionado.blogspot.com/2012/02/new-march-items.html

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  29. Funny... I've had two wardrobe malfunctions happen with brand-new clothing in the past few weeks (aka seams ripping in unfortunate places during the middle of the work day), and the two culprits were from J. Crew and Gap.

    I think the two stores have much more in common than TPTB would like to believe, haha.

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    1. I had an unfortunate wardrobe malfunction in the Natashia top a month ago, presenting to our executive team (of men). Yes, it was my moment to shine and those dainty, flimsy buttons that don't stay in the hole properly highlighted more than I needed to show. My assistant gently told me in the middle of my all day presentation. It was awesome...not! I brought that one and the one I hadn't wore yet back to the store and my PS said she would give feedback.

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    2. Tammy, that's awful! I hope the rest of your presentation went well.

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    3. Tammy, I had that same issue, and I think the real problem is that the button holes are too large for the buttons they chose. You can just stitch them up a bit (making sure the button still fits through of course), or I'm assuming a tailor could do it?

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  30. Jenna is taking aim at Tracy Gardner who now works at the Gap. Tactless Jenna!

    The quality at the Gap nowdays is much better than J Crew, my Henley is unravelling at the seams after 2 washes. JC Factory items are more durable than the retail version.

    The Gap does not have many of their items waitlisted unlike J Crew who apparently does not order enough inventory to last 1 day in the new arrival section on their website.

    Also I am sooo sick of Jenna, J Crew has other talented designers I would like to hear about in the news.

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    1. both of my henleys unraveled which is a bummer because I loved the colors. 2 washes for the purple one (on delicate circle) and 3 for the striped. Boo!

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    2. casual crew, that's exactly what I thought when I started reading this article.

      I guess JC is starting to feel threatened a bit since Gap has started turning things around. I have liked a lot more items at the Gap lately.

      See some Gap reviews here.

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  31. I used to shop a lot at the Gap about 10 years ago, but in recent years their styles have been more casual and less in tune to my tastes, so my purchases from Gap are much reduced. Over all, I find JCrew to have more stylish and better-quality clothes than Gap, although I've run into a few incredibly wonderful pieces at Gap, and a few terrible ones at JCrew, so it does vary.

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  32. I agree with others, Gap clothes don't fill any sort of needs for my lifestyle, and they aren't fashionable enough to be "fun" purchases. IMO their clothes are so bland; I don't ever find "special" pieces or anything I just HAVE to have like I do at J Crew.

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    1. It's true JC may have some fun items from time to time. But their clothing went downhill in quality a long time ago. At least I can expect my Gap tees and shirts to last one season. With JC, perhaps not even one wash.

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    2. Honestly, I haven't really had any big quality issues with J Crew recently. Minor things like loose buttons and dropped hems happen, but I know how to sew so those are no big deal to me. Maybe I've just learned what to avoid buying ("Dream" anything, tees with stripes/colors that will run, straw lining on shoes that will crack, etc), but I've found as long as I'm careful with things and take care of them, they hold up. I do tend to buy more of the collection/professional clothing though, so maybe the knits are a different story.

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  33. Banana republic seems more in line with my work life than Gap, but I've been bored with them for a couple of years and left them for J.Crew a few years ago and barely visited. At the time, I thought J.Crew colors were better, liked the selection and quality. (I do not see the same quality now as I did then) I went to the B&M BR downtown Seattle and that BR is awesome, the one on the eastside of Seattle (Bellevue) not so much. The BR in Maui had a lot, as well. I ended up with 3 summer cardis and a sundress. Too soon to see how those will hold up over time (knock on wood). I find more Gap/Old navy stuff for my daughter. I get my casual/weekend wear at J.Crew, Nordstrom as a creature of habit...

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  34. Just a quick vent that I received another wrong item from the Crew today. The third one in the last six months and I haven't ordered much!!!

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  35. I've been to different J. Crews in at least 5 different states: CT, CA, MA, IL, and NY. If I had to name my least favorite stores, the top 3 would be in NYC. The items in the SoHo store are often ridiculously over-priced, not well-made for what they are charging, and uninspiring. It's actually super annoying in my opinion to have completely different items at different stores because when I go shopping, I want good quality, good customer service, and a good value. I don't need the items to be cheap, but I expect to pay a fair price for what your product is worth. Recently, J.Crew seems to think it's okay to charge ridiculously high prices for poor quality products. They also seem to be patting themselves in the back for it - that's just sad.

    What J.Crew should really think about right now is why they it's okay to put items online when they've sold out, only to cancel on the customer later. Or why it's okay to send customers the wrong item time and again. That's unreliable and terrible customer service. We're in the 21st century! Figure out how to track your items and analyze data so you stop wasting customer's time and energy.

    I appreciate J. Crew's creativity and colors when it comes to clothing. I don't deny their pieces can make some killer outfits. What I find disturbing is how the leaders of the company seem to care more about congratulating themselves than thinking about how to be better.

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    1. And now if you call in after they send a wrong item, they'll refer you to a "specialist" who asks you to ship it back without giving you any promise that you'll get the refund soon. No it's no longer OK to just drop off the item at your local store. What kind of CS is that???!!! It's your mistake, J.Crew!

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  36. @Jess
    Wow, talk about inconsistent policy. Within the past few weeks, & as recent as last week, I received three orders containing a wrong item, and in each case I called CS & they processed a pre-return same day (within minutes). They also offered to send a return label for free shipping, or I could return to the b&m. Wonder if you just had a clueless sales rep.

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    1. I lucked out on getting the right orders but the cancellation of orders out of stock drives me nuts. They also add back shipping. For example, I purchased enough to qualify for free shipping at $175. Then I get an email 6 days later to say they are out of stock with an item. When I get my invoice, they added the $8.95 back to shipping costs for their broken process.

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    2. Yeah I thought so too initially. But it seemed they have these newly installed "specialists" that deal mainly with these kind of problems. The regular CS had to connect me with these people who can then issue a refund. Of course, now the refund is no longer instant nor guaranteed. "Send back your item and we'll proceed from there". Boo.

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  37. I wonder when we will notice the impact of Marissa Webb's departure from J.Crew. She is on my linkedin and updated her job a few days ago:

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/marissa-webb/27/620/730

    It looks like she is starting something:
    http://instagr.am/p/Jugo0bQ8Lr/

    I'm a fan of Marissa's contribution to J.Crew, so it will be interesting to see what she does next.

    Also, perhaps Tracy Gardner may do good things for GAP. Perhaps I need to walk in instead of passing by?
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-20/gap-advances-after-former-merchandising-head-gardner-returns.html

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    1. I love Marissa too. Can't wait to see what she does!

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  38. I think she really needs to be careful when critisizing a retail giant like the GAP. J.Crew isn't perfect and could probably learn some things from the GAP as well. I really hope they don't get "too big for their britches" because who wants to knowingly by clothes from an egotastic snob (not saying she is...but she could be).

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  39. When you mean Gap, do you mean Gap Inc. or Gap-Gap? Because J.Crew is more Banana Republic than Gap and Old Navy.

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    1. I agree with you, CynthiaC. BR seems more J.Crew, although the weekend items for Crew (which I love) have an old school GAP vibe to them.

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  40. I think Gap is finally coming out of the Patrick Robinson debacle, where for me nothing fit and quality went down. Lately I feel quality has gone down at Gap and up at Old Navy for some items. BR quality has gone down an it has never fit me. I do have many items I love from the Gap and I love the SAs at my local store. I think the post Robinson Gap looks promising if they could only maintain the quality and improve the color selection.

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  41. In defense of Patrick Robinson, his role was as creative director and not as quality control. I think his collections were too fashion forward for the Gap customers who wanted to be told how to match everything. I think they do need to up their colors, but I'm impressed by their recent turnaround. I've spent more at Gap than at J crew lately.

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  42. Oh! Jenna, Jenna---I refer to this as the RED DOOR Effect---"Want a good mani/pedi---go to Red Door!" (Yes. I am being tactless and naming manes):) Red Door built their reputation on great CS and quality products---flash forward 10 years--the W-O-R-S-T mani/pedi and CS EVER!!! Lesson- Once a reputation is bulit many big biz feel as though they no longer have to put in the effort. Sadly it seems J. Crew is following suit.

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  43. I have use for both. I'm still going to be an occasional customer of GPS because of extended sizing. JCG only has that sizing in the wedding/party section. And on the cashmere, I love the colors of my featherweight sweaters, all of which I got on sale, but I don't love the pilling.

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